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So according to you, God does not want to save all people, instead He locks them up in stubbornness so their eternal doom is sealed?
Let me check Romans 11:32 again:
Romans 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness, as a judgment for being an idiot...
No wait, that is not what it actually says. This is what it actually says:
Romans 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Romans 11:32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
Mercy triumphs over judgment and condemnation my friend - it is good news!
To state that Mercy triumphs over judgment and condemnation is just the repackaging of "You will not surely die" by someone else.
There is no good news in a repackaged statement, no matter how much effort there is in hop-scotching the context. Why would Jesus say this about some people if everything ends up like Mr. Rodgers Neighborehood
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
And pcamps says that Jesus never confronted people?
The utopia of Mr. Rodgers Neighborehood of UR theology is just make believe.
That is why the only people UR theology targets to "evangelize" is one group..... we belong to a different Father.
To state that Mercy triumphs over judgment and condemnation is just the repackaging of "You will not surely die" by someone else.
There is no good news in a repackaged statement, no matter how much effort there is in hop-scotching the context. Why would Jesus say this about some people if everything ends up like Mr. Rodgers Neighborehood
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
And pcamps says that Jesus never confronted people?
The utopia of Mr. Rodgers Neighborehood of UR theology is just make believe.
That is why the only people UR theology targets to "evangelize" is one group..... we belong to a different Father.
To state that Mercy triumphs over judgment and condemnation is just the repackaging of "You will not surely die" by someone else.
There is no good news in a repackaged statement, no matter how much effort there is in hop-scotching the context. Why would Jesus say this about some people if everything ends up like Mr. Rodgers Neighborehood
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
And pcamps says that Jesus never confronted people?
The utopia of Mr. Rodgers Neighborehood of UR theology is just make believe.
That is why the only people UR theology targets to "evangelize" ..... we belong to a different Father.
The thing I find sad, Twin, is that on this forum you always argue from a stance that is anti-mercy, anti-grace, anti-love. You belittle mercy, you mock grace, you call love vomit. Why, as a Lutheran -- as a Christian -- is your continual focus on wrath, anger, and condemnation? Haven't you wondered about that, yourself?
it is the christian church that speaks with two tongues. they say hitler will be burning! but they refuse to say the jews (kids, granpas, etc.. who did not accept Jesus) will be burning right next to hitler. If you at least say that kids and pregnant women, will also be burning then i gotta respect you for standing firm in your belief. but then the church creates "age of accountability" to get those people off the hook.
The thing I find sad, Twin, is that on this forum you always argue from a stance that is anti-mercy, anti-grace, anti-love. You belittle mercy, you mock grace, you call love vomit. Why, as a Lutheran -- as a Christian -- is your continual focus on wrath, anger, and condemnation? Haven't you wondered about that, yourself?
Reminds me of something a friend once said:
"It seems rather silly to fight so hard against the idea that God is that wonderful."
The thing I find sad, Twin, is that on this forum you always argue from a stance that is anti-mercy, anti-grace, anti-love. You belittle mercy, you mock grace, you call love vomit. Why, as a Lutheran -- as a Christian -- is your continual focus on wrath, anger, and condemnation? Haven't you wondered about that, yourself?
They never actually compare the attributes of the Father they believe in with the attributes of the Devil they believe in . . . (who they think is the Father of Christian Universalists, btw). Our God of love is the complete opposite of any Devil or Satan . . . but they subjectively dismiss it by rote. They cannot objectively evaluate it and then retain belief in the God our savage ancestors believed in. It is cognitive dissonance and self-deception born of strong conditioning and indoctrination, Pleroo. It is very sad.
"It seems rather silly to fight so hard against the idea that God is that wonderful."
Exactly!
Twin is Lutheran (as was I), and I know he takes his heritage seriously. That is why I find your animosity towards grace and mercy so startling, Twin. I mean, I could see you arguing the need for faith with such vigor, but AGAINST grace and mercy?
Martin Luther was no Universalist, but even he would not do what you do and declare God's grace and mercy and love to be incapable of accomplishing whatever God desired. He was such a believer in God's grace AND sovereignty that he was careful to qualify himself by saying, "It would be quite a different question whether God can impart faith to some in the hour of death or after death so that these people could be saved through faith. Who would doubt God’s ability to do that?"
They never actually compare the attributes of the Father they believe in with the attributes of the Devil they believe in . . . (who they think is the Father of Christian Universalists, btw). Our God of love is the complete opposite of any Devil or Satan . . . but they subjectively dismiss it by rote. They cannot objectively evaluate it and then retain belief in the God our savage ancestors believed in. It is cognitive dissonance and self-deception born of strong conditioning and indoctrination, Pleroo. It is very sad.
That dissonance as a Lutheran was always great for me and it was because of their own doctrines. As a church body, the grace of God was thoroughly emphasized and lauded and praised, as was God's sovereignty in the matter of faith, resulting in the doctrine of single predestination (God predestines some to have faith but does NOT predestine others to hell). That doctrine was so internally at odds with itself that as a teenager wrestling with it, I asked a Lutheran pastor about it. His immediate response was anger, and to shut me down. He refused to discuss it with me. Why the anger? I can only think it is because it threatens their house of cards. If Lutherans trusted God's grace as much as they say they do, they would not fear tough questions.
The thing I find sad, Twin, is that on this forum you always argue from a stance that is anti-mercy, anti-grace, anti-love. You belittle mercy, you mock grace, you call love vomit. Why, as a Lutheran -- as a Christian -- is your continual focus on wrath, anger, and condemnation? Haven't you wondered about that, yourself?
Being Lutheran has nothing to do it, as a Christian it has everything to do with it.
You're misdirecting the focus of my "anti" isms.
As a Christian, where I've been announcing anti-mercy, anti-grace, anti-love is against people's claim that God is going to show love\mercy\grace when Jesus said where God will not.
To say God does where he doesn't is preaching a false hope, a false mercy, a false grace ..... a false gospel.
UR theology has no theology standards at all.
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