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In short, a preterist is the generally accepted term for those who believe that all biblical prophecy events have been completed, and were accomplished in the past - the first century to be exact. The event usually associated with the fulfillment of Bible prophecy is the Roman-Jewish War of A.D.66-73, especially during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
The term "Preterist" is taken from the Hebrew language's "Preterite" tense, which is the "past perfect" sense, in terms of once for all completion or accomplishment. When applied to Bible Prophecy, the term has reference to events being fulfilled (completed, accomplished) in the past.
The term "preterist" can be found in the Unabridged versions of Webster's Dictionary. In the 1913 edition, the definition of "preterist" is: "2. (Theol.) One who believes the prophecies of the Apocalypse to have been already fulfilled. Farrar." Dictionaries are by definition authoritative compilations of word meanings, and the inclusion of a word is significant. The fact that the word "preterist" can be found as far back as 1913 shows conclusively that it has had the meaning we've been associating it with for many years!
Any modern dictionary will define "preter" as a prefix, meaning "past, beyond." This word is from the prefix "pre" which means "before in time, before in place, before in rank." And the terms "ist" or "ism" are simply suffixes, which can refer to doctrines. Therefore, "preterism" or "preterist" is simply a prefix and a suffix put together!
Just for the record, only those who believe that the Scriptures teach that all the events related to Christ's Parousia (i.e. "Second Advent," the resurrection and judgment, etc.) are past deserve the name "Preterist." All others are simply futurists of a sort.
The events that happened in and around 70 AD were catastrophic for the Jews that didn't accept Christ as their savior. They were waiting for a physical return of Christ. They did not understand that Christ's kingdom was a spiritual one and all perished or went into slavery (which was already brought up in this post) at the destruction of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. This was a major event and a changing of covenants. Don't make the same mistake today, waiting for Christ to return and establish a physical kingdom.
Hebrew 9:8-11 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It [was] symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- [concerned] only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed untilthe time of reformation. But Christ came [as] High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle notmade with hands, that is, not of this creation.
For anyone who is serious about increasing their knowledge about what happened at Jerusalem and linking some of history together with what has been said here then I suggest reading, Flavius Josephus - The Wars Of The Jews Book VI.
I was looking back through the threads and I ran across this referenced site by Arguy. The thread had kind of faded out, but I took a look at the site and I think it's worth revisiting just for that. There seems to be a lot of controversy and questions about the rapture, 1000 year reign and related events, and I think this might help those who have been so inquisitive and those who are looking for scriptures and how they come together and relate to one another.
This is a real plain, simple, understandable explanation with all the related scriptures within the explanation and it explains exactly why I believe this and why so many others believe, such as the Baptists. I'm not too sure about the "glorified" and "natural" body differential within the 1000 year reign....I'm going to have to research that one.
Thanks Arguy!!! You should have made more of a fuss about this one!
Be sure to scroll down to the "Answer" section on the site.
This is why I originally posted in the thread.....because of the website referenced by Arguy, and I would like to bring this to the forefront again, because this has turned into a Preterist thread and the truth is not being heard. You guys can continue on with your arguments and unbelievably long posts, but I won't be participating anymore. I believe that the Bible is for all generations, and that end times prophecies are yet to be fulfilled.
Too much of the prophecy has not been fulfilled, so your arguments hold absolutely no water and the only purpose they serve is to send those seeking God and the truth screaming out of the forum. That, my friends, is no better than the atheist arguments. I have never seen so many people so determined to be 'right' that they have completely forgotten or don't care any longer that Jesus Christ is the center of Christianity and you should be here for His purpose, not your own. I don't even understand what your point is, really.
We are told to warn of the things to come, not to drive everyone insane by arguments of how it's already happened and no need to worry. That is not Biblical.....it's self-serving, selfish, self-righteous nonsense that has nothing to do with God.
We are told to warn of the things to come, not to drive everyone insane by arguments of how it's already happened and no need to worry. That is not Biblical
I agree with you that the preterist view is incorrect.. Jesus' second coming has not happened yet.
I think I mentioned this in this thread.. but really we are putting the cart before the horse in this. We need to first get a glimpse of "The Kingdom". Read the OP in this thread: //www.city-data.com/forum/chris...ngdom-god.html
I put forth the challenge to you... of these many verses found in the NT, are any referring to a literal kingdom to come?
In short, a preterist is the generally accepted term for those who believe that all biblical prophecy events have been completed, and were accomplished in the past - the first century to be exact. The event usually associated with the fulfillment of Bible prophecy is the Roman-Jewish War of A.D.66-73, especially during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
The term "Preterist" is taken from the Hebrew language's "Preterite" tense, which is the "past perfect" sense, in terms of once for all completion or accomplishment. When applied to Bible Prophecy, the term has reference to events being fulfilled (completed, accomplished) in the past.
The term "preterist" can be found in the Unabridged versions of Webster's Dictionary. In the 1913 edition, the definition of "preterist" is: "2. (Theol.) One who believes the prophecies of the Apocalypse to have been already fulfilled. Farrar." Dictionaries are by definition authoritative compilations of word meanings, and the inclusion of a word is significant. The fact that the word "preterist" can be found as far back as 1913 shows conclusively that it has had the meaning we've been associating it with for many years!
Any modern dictionary will define "preter" as a prefix, meaning "past, beyond." This word is from the prefix "pre" which means "before in time, before in place, before in rank." And the terms "ist" or "ism" are simply suffixes, which can refer to doctrines. Therefore, "preterism" or "preterist" is simply a prefix and a suffix put together!
Just for the record, only those who believe that the Scriptures teach that all the events related to Christ's Parousia (i.e. "Second Advent," the resurrection and judgment, etc.) are past deserve the name "Preterist." All others are simply futurists of a sort.
The events that happened in and around 70 AD were catastrophic for the Jews that didn't accept Christ as their savior. They were waiting for a physical return of Christ. They did not understand that Christ's kingdom was a spiritual one and all perished or went into slavery (which was already brought up in this post) at the destruction of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. This was a major event and a changing of covenants. Don't make the same mistake today, waiting for Christ to return and establish a physical kingdom.
Hebrew 9:8-11 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It [was] symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- [concerned] only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed untilthe time of reformation. But Christ came [as] High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle notmade with hands, that is, not of this creation.
For anyone who is serious about increasing their knowledge about what happened at Jerusalem and linking some of history together with what has been said here then I suggest reading, Flavius Josephus - The Wars Of The Jews Book VI.
Hiram: I am glad to meet someone who has also read the very enlightening works of Josephus. This should be required reading by all Christians.
I am also glad that you clarified that partial preterism is really just another form of futurism. I agree completely.
Have you always been a preterist? If you do not wish to share this testimony to all, let me know and I will provide my e-mail address. I was once a diehard pretrib, premil, dispensationalist. I regret to this day the number of people I instructed in this false system and have prayed for the Lord's forgiveness for my leading people astray. Perhaps that is why I am so adamant about revealing the errors of the false doctrines of futurism.
We are told to warn of the things to come, not to drive everyone insane by arguments of how it's already happened and no need to worry. That is not Biblical.....it's self-serving, selfish, self-righteous nonsense that has nothing to do with God.
I believe that even though I may not agree with another believer's perspective or belief on certain things, this doesn't mean that just because this believer disagrees with me, that this person is selfish, self serving, or self righteous. We just may have a different view or understanding on this subject. I'm wondering what is most important... God bless.
Hiram: I am glad to meet someone who has also read the very enlightening works of Josephus. This should be required reading by all Christians.
I am also glad that you clarified that partial preterism is really just another form of futurism. I agree completely.
Have you always been a preterist? If you do not wish to share this testimony to all, let me know and I will provide my e-mail address. I was once a diehard pretrib, premil, dispensationalist. I regret to this day the number of people I instructed in this false system and have prayed for the Lord's forgiveness for my leading people astray. Perhaps that is why I am so adamant about revealing the errors of the false doctrines of futurism.
I appreciate your thoughtful and biblical input!
In Christ, (Full)Preterist
People quite often lead themselves astray.
No. I was not always a preterist. It took a lot of prayer and asking for understanding and many hours of study. After all, God gives abundantly to those who ask.
Isaiah 28:9-13 " Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those [just] weaned from milk? Those [just] drawn from the breasts? For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little." For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom He said, "This [is] the rest [with which] You may cause the weary to rest," And, "This [is] the refreshing"; Yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little...
I saw scripture that didn't make sense to me and I slowly started to investigate and understand. I guess I did a lot on my own, other then of course God and his "spirit", which is the "word of God". I would see scripture such as :
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
...and wonder what is going on.
The exciting thing about it thing is that I could see the scripture in a completely new light. It all comes together. As you know, once this is established then so many other "controversial" doctrines come to light, and that is where the unity of the spirit comes to light. By all means contact me, I would be quite excited to hear more about you. I tried your email but it won't go through. I think mine should work.
The people will read books, make new posts, read false teachers million dollar books, such as Hal Lindsey, and continually go around trying to find a "truth". 2 Timothy 3:7 False teachers, religious organizations, dooms day soothsayers, keep predicting the time of the end and i t n e v e r c o m e s t r u e. And never will.
It is simple, "cloud comings" are all over the OT, but people don't want to look at it. Josephus records Christ cloud coming, (http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-6.htmb ) but not many interested at looking at it. Other ancient writings have recorded it.
No. I was not always a preterist. It took a lot of prayer and asking for understanding and many hours of study. After all, God gives abundantly to those who ask.
Isaiah 28:9-13 " Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those [just] weaned from milk? Those [just] drawn from the breasts? For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little." For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom He said, "This [is] the rest [with which] You may cause the weary to rest," And, "This [is] the refreshing"; Yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little...
I saw scripture that didn't make sense to me and I slowly started to investigate and understand. I guess I did a lot on my own, other then of course God and his "spirit", which is the "word of God". I would see scripture such as :
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
...and wonder what is going on.
The exciting thing about it thing is that I could see the scripture in a completely new light. It all comes together. As you know, once this is established then so many other "controversial" doctrines come to light, and that is where the unity of the spirit comes to light. By all means contact me, I would be quite excited to hear more about you. I tried your email but it won't go through. I think mine should work.
The people will read books, make new posts, read false teachers million dollar books, such as Hal Lindsey, and continually go around trying to find a "truth". 2 Timothy 3:7 False teachers, religious organizations, dooms day soothsayers, keep predicting the time of the end and i t n e v e r c o m e s t r u e. And never will.
It is simple, "cloud comings" are all over the OT, but people don't want to look at it. Josephus records Christ cloud coming, (http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-6.htmb ) but not many interested at looking at it. Other ancient writings have recorded it.
Flavius Josephus was nothing but a Jewish historian. May I remind you that he is not a part of God's Holy Word, and what has been done here and the consequences of doing such a thing as IT IS in the scriptures:
Revelation 22:18-19
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book. If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book."
I know ALL of the scriptures you quote, and I have discerned what they mean through the Holy Spirit. Like I told you in the other thread, you're wasting your time. You are so hung up on your version of the truth you can't hear or see what others are trying to tell you. I'm getting ready to start another thread, so you can go there and repeat the same argument over and over if you like. You should really check out the thread that Simple Living just started in the Christianity sub-forum and view the ENTIRE video.
Nothing you say or no amount of scriptures you quote will EVER change my beliefs of what the scriptures really say. Why is it so important to you to convince everyone that you are absolutely correct in your thinking? You might want to rethink why you are doing this. You should be more concerned about spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ and how people need to become saved, rather than arguing with other Christians about their beliefs who are here to do God's work and stop interfering with God's purpose for them.
I believe that even though I may not agree with another believer's perspective or belief on certain things, this doesn't mean that just because this believer disagrees with me, that this person is selfish, self serving, or self righteous. We just may have a different view or understanding on this subject. I'm wondering what is most important... God bless.
Thank you, ShanaBrown. We are both aware that we do not agree on some of these issues, but I am grateful that you do not judge the motives of those with whom you disagree.
This is why I originally posted in the thread.....because of the website referenced by Arguy, and I would like to bring this to the forefront again, because this has turned into a Preterist thread and the truth is not being heard. You guys can continue on with your arguments and unbelievably long posts, but I won't be participating anymore. I believe that the Bible is for all generations, and that end times prophecies are yet to be fulfilled.
Too much of the prophecy has not been fulfilled, so your arguments hold absolutely no water and the only purpose they serve is to send those seeking God and the truth screaming out of the forum. That, my friends, is no better than the atheist arguments. I have never seen so many people so determined to be 'right' that they have completely forgotten or don't care any longer that Jesus Christ is the center of Christianity and you should be here for His purpose, not your own. I don't even understand what your point is, really.
We are told to warn of the things to come, not to drive everyone insane by arguments of how it's already happened and no need to worry. That is not Biblical.....it's self-serving, selfish, self-righteous nonsense that has nothing to do with God.
DayoftheLord: I am sorry you feel that way about those with whom you disagree. In all honesty, I don't think that you really listen to what we are saying. It is not enough that you simply come back and say "I believe," and "I think." You simply dismiss our arguments as holding no water by making a simple statement of your beliefs--without Scriptural support.
You cannot come on a forum and lay out a position on something and not expect to be challenged. Were you expecting that everything you say, people should agree with you? And if they don't, they are "self-serving, selfish, self-righteous," and worse than atheists? Ouch! That hurts!
Can we please discuss the Scripures? They are the only source of truth. If you disagree with what someone says, prove it with the Word of God--and not simple "proof" texts but well-thought out passages explained in their CONTEXT.
Hiram and I have given you many passages IN THEIR CONTEXTS which give sound support for the preterist view. (And, really, DOTL, our posts are not too long!) You seem to refuse to even give our posts a fair hearing--you have made up your mind, so everything we say is irrelevant. I am starting a new thread and will not bother you anymore. Should you come to my thread, (and you are welcome), I expect that you will not participate unless you are willing to give the posters reasonable consideration of the effort and work they put into their posts. Furthermore, I encourage all who participate to give Scriptural support to their objections--not just verses snatched from here and there, but verses presented in their CONTEXT to guard against the misuse of God's Word.
"What did Jesus say about His Parousia?" Come one, come all!
Preterist
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Nice to meet you
