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God has "written it in our hearts" and the Holy Spirit (Comforter) guides us to it when we are sincere and uncorrupted by the "precepts and doctrines of men" designed to keep us from the truth by arbitrary rules and prohibitions. The scriptures are USEFUL to aid us in learning righteousness . . . but we are to study them with reason using the "mind of Christ (WWJT) and sincerity querying our heart of hearts for what is Evil and what is Good. Anything we have to rationalize away to our heart or excuse using "precepts and doctrines of men" is NOT the truth, period.
God has "written it in our hearts" and the Holy Spirit (Comforter) guides us to it when we are sincere and uncorrupted by the "precepts and doctrines of men" designed to keep us from the truth by arbitrary rules and prohibitions. The scriptures are USEFUL to aid us in learning righteousness . . . but we are to study them with reason using the "mind of Christ (WWJT) and sincerity querying our heart of hearts for what is Evil and what is Good. Anything we have to rationalize away to our heart or excuse using "precepts and doctrines of men" is NOT the truth, period.
I bet your "mind of Christ" doesn't like what Christ had to say in Luke 17.
Mystic, you have made God in your own image-the real "precepts and doctrines of men".
It would be nice if someone would share the meaning of the cross which is different from the meaning decribed in the Bible, but every time I ask, everyone who claims to have the answer will refuse to share it. If I knew such secrets, I couldn't wait to share it with everyone, like the apostols shared everything the Spirit told them.
I bet your "mind of Christ" doesn't like what Christ had to say in Luke 17.
Mystic, you have made God in your own image-the real "precepts and doctrines of men".
Hebrews 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the sheddingofblood there is no forgiveness.
Romans 3:25
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness,
God demonstrate his righteousness by presenting Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood... without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
That is why it is essential to understand the correct meaning of the cross.
Did Jesus have to die in the hands of men? Yes, it was meant to be, and God, His father sent Jesus here as a "Lamb of God", and He did it because He loves us and wanted us to give us a way to salvation. Many people here say that if this was true, then God is a murderer, or that it would be callous disregard for human life, or anyone who believes such things is disconnected from reality, and void logic. Believers of this are mocked as being incapable of reason or thought.
To that I say that some people here are futher from the truth than I could ever have imagined.
Luke 24:6-8 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, "saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'"
Luke 24:46-47 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thusit was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
John 10:17-18 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."
1 Cor 15:3-4 “For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
Heb. 9:26-28: “He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
God has "written it in our hearts" and the Holy Spirit (Comforter) guides us to it when we are sincere and uncorrupted by the "precepts and doctrines of men" designed to keep us from the truth by arbitrary rules and prohibitions. The scriptures are USEFUL to aid us in learning righteousness . . . but we are to study them with reason using the "mind of Christ (WWJT) and sincerity querying our heart of hearts for what is Evil and what is Good. Anything we have to rationalize away to our heart or excuse using "precepts and doctrines of men" is NOT the truth, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
I bet your "mind of Christ" doesn't like what Christ had to say in Luke 17.
I doubt that . . . It is how you interpret what you read in Luke that is the problem . . . not what is in Luke, per se.
Quote:
Mystic, you have made God in your own image-the real "precepts and doctrines of men".
No jimmie . . . I have accepted God in Christ's image . . . for He said when you see me you see the Father. I do not accept that the Father does or ever did ANYTHING that Jesus did not or would not do.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 05-26-2013 at 10:41 PM..
Pleroo, you have an opportunity to find God if you are looking. The disappointed ones will be those (of us) who believe we already have found Him. Jesus said He is more concerned with the one sheep that is lost than the 99 which are found.
Most of the inerrantists always have a limited view of God. They are unable to see the big picture. Although they give lip service to the fact that God made everything, they are never able to see the holy hidden within what they consider to be profane. But if God made it, it still has a thread of His Spirit within in it.
And if His Spirit is in it, there are no "levels" of holiness IMO. To the inerrantist, the Bible is the most holy, and anything else God does is not quite so holy because if it were, it would have to be on the same level as the Bible. Convuluted thinking, to say the least.
But, yes, I do believe it is essential to understand the meaning of the cross for you, as I need to understand it for me.
Well, the only thing Jesus said about the cross as it pertained to others, was that they should take up their cross and follow him. I would think we could all at least agree about THAT, and perhaps discuss what that means.
Separate imagination and fables from that of reality, which exists independently of ideas concerning the former. In other words, don’t jump from an aircraft without a parachute; it’s a mindless act. Sound judgment would be that of using common sense and reasoning, if one is prudent.
Let me ask a question or two:
Should we concern ourselves with understanding mental illness? Or should we remain in ignorance, holding onto the doctrine of demons?
It would be nice if someone would share the meaning of the cross which is different from the meaning decribed [described] in the Bible, but every time I ask, everyone who claims to have the answer will refuse to share it. If I knew such secrets, I couldn't wait to share it with everyone, like the apostols [apostles] shared everything the Spirit told them.
It appears to me that the death of Jesus was brought about through human volition, given the political and religious powers of the day. Although at the same time, Jesus was fully aware that his message and what he represented to the status quo would ultimately lead to a violent death. Thus, his life was an issue in setting the captives free from the established sects of the day. But his death was not divinely foreordained as a penal substitution, whereas, there is no greater love than to lay one's own life down for that of another. Many are fixated on Jesus' death, and will accept nothing but the blood of Jesus, as "they know not, what they do." Although, there is only ONE whose undeniable innocence (not an ordinary victim) was able to change the process of scapegoating (a slaughterhouse religion with a carnivorous diet). And it is a saving act of God; a victory over the powers of this world (men) and a defeat of death, reversing it through his Life and Resurrection. The cross may, indeed be, the centerpiece of the Christian religion, but it is not God's altar. Rather, it is the gospel which was/is/will end all bloodshed, not that of merely exchanging victims (bulls and goats for that of Christ as a substitution). It was a sacrifice to end all sacrificing; and to open our eyes to the truth: "I desire mercy, not Sacrifice." Let's not make it a prescription for suffering death, but ONE of LIFE.
Last edited by Jerwade; 05-27-2013 at 01:55 AM..
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