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I have a low tolerance for politicians manipulating the public with religious posturing. No pun intended.
I also firmly believe in the separations of church and state.
Yes I'm a Christian, but a president such as Reagan who's actions were anything but Christlike ( if you look at Christ the social progressive and egalitarian) a president who arguably set us back thirty years, thirty years ago, attempting to look holy as he contemplates what? A tax break for the wealthy or a war on poor women, or a union he wanted to bust - makes me ill. And angry. As they said in the 80s "gag me with a spoon".
Jesus Christ himself had a low threshold for BS.
If I never hear a little homely tidbit about the "Teflon Ron", I'd be a happy woman.
Reagan was also the one who coined the phrase, "Deficits don't matter," (one reason the Chief of his budget office resigned) that was repeated by Dick Cheney in defending the Bush tax cuts in the midst of a looming war and for which Repubs now blame Democrats for causing.
The Repubs also plotted, actually plotted, to take over the Southern Baptist Convention and use it as a political tool. And they were successful. A once strong religiously oriented institution has now degenerated into a quasi-political organization that still gets tax breaks.
It's also interesting to note that Repubs were first to suggest "mandated health care" back in the late eighties or early nineties, and that is one of the things that they are fighting the hardest about the ACA. Dems were astonished by resistance to what they thought Repubs would support. But Repubs are much better at changing the direction they sail and then pointing fingers at the opposite party for doing what they have suggested--witness Romney's health care in Massachusetts versus his attack on the ACA while running for President. Observers note there are few differences between the ACA and Massachusetts' mandated care.
In my younger days as a member of the SBC, a licensed minister, who took 21 college hours of critical Bible study, the SBC had a mission to make sure the people who came into that denomination got their own lives right with God and lived the kind of life that stood as a witness to others about how Jesus wanted us to live. Today, there are few people in most denominations who understand that it's how they LIVE their lives that is to be a testimony to the world. Instead they believe it is how they vote.
In 2005, Jim Wallis, a theologian, founder of Sojourner's magazine, published a book entitled God's Politics, a discussion of why the Right gets it Wrong and the Left doesn't get it. While the Right argues that God's Way is THEIR way, the Left pursues an unrealistic separation of religious values from morally grounded political leadership. The consequence is a false choice between ideological religion and souless politics.
We need more soul in our faith AND our politics, and far less theatrics.
Reagan was also the one who coined the phrase, "Deficits don't matter," (one reason the Chief of his budget office resigned) that was repeated by Dick Cheney in defending the Bush tax cuts in the midst of a looming war and for which Repubs now blame Democrats for causing.
The Repubs also plotted, actually plotted, to take over the Southern Baptist Convention and use it as a political tool. And they were successful. A once strong religiously oriented institution has now degenerated into a quasi-political organization that still gets tax breaks.
It's also interesting to note that Repubs were first to suggest "mandated health care" back in the late eighties or early nineties, and that is one of the things that they are fighting the hardest about the ACA. Dems were astonished by resistance to what they thought Repubs would support. But Repubs are much better at changing the direction they sail and then pointing fingers at the opposite party for doing what they have suggested--witness Romney's health care in Massachusetts versus his attack on the ACA while running for President. Observers note there are few differences between the ACA and Massachusetts' mandated care.
In my younger days as a member of the SBC, a licensed minister, who took 21 college hours of critical Bible study, the SBC had a mission to make sure the people who came into that denomination got their own lives right with God and lived the kind of life that stood as a witness to others about how Jesus wanted us to live. Today, there are few people in most denominations who understand that it's how they LIVE their lives that is to be a testimony to the world. Instead they believe it is how they vote.
In 2005, Jim Wallis, a theologian, founder of Sojourner's magazine, published a book entitled God's Politics, a discussion of why the Right gets it Wrong and the Left doesn't get it. While the Right argues that God's Way is THEIR way, the Left pursues an unrealistic separation of religious values from morally grounded political leadership. The consequence is a false choice between ideological religion and souless politics.
We need more soul in our faith AND our politics, and far less theatrics.
Get off your bleeding heart liberal high horse and come back to God and the SBC. We still love you!
Reagan was also the one who coined the phrase, "Deficits don't matter," (one reason the Chief of his budget office resigned) that was repeated by Dick Cheney in defending the Bush tax cuts in the midst of a looming war and for which Repubs now blame Democrats for causing.
The Repubs also plotted, actually plotted, to take over the Southern Baptist Convention and use it as a political tool. And they were successful. A once strong religiously oriented institution has now degenerated into a quasi-political organization that still gets tax breaks.
It's also interesting to note that Repubs were first to suggest "mandated health care" back in the late eighties or early nineties, and that is one of the things that they are fighting the hardest about the ACA. Dems were astonished by resistance to what they thought Repubs would support. But Repubs are much better at changing the direction they sail and then pointing fingers at the opposite party for doing what they have suggested--witness Romney's health care in Massachusetts versus his attack on the ACA while running for President. Observers note there are few differences between the ACA and Massachusetts' mandated care.
In my younger days as a member of the SBC, a licensed minister, who took 21 college hours of critical Bible study, the SBC had a mission to make sure the people who came into that denomination got their own lives right with God and lived the kind of life that stood as a witness to others about how Jesus wanted us to live. Today, there are few people in most denominations who understand that it's how they LIVE their lives that is to be a testimony to the world. Instead they believe it is how they vote.
In 2005, Jim Wallis, a theologian, founder of Sojourner's magazine, published a book entitled God's Politics, a discussion of why the Right gets it Wrong and the Left doesn't get it. While the Right argues that God's Way is THEIR way, the Left pursues an unrealistic separation of religious values from morally grounded political leadership. The consequence is a false choice between ideological religion and souless politics.
We need more soul in our faith AND our politics, and far less theatrics.
Long time fan of "Sojourners". Sad how the Right hi-jacked the SBC. I'll agree the Left doesn't get it either. That looks like a book I missed and need to read.
You are right, the result of all of this is nothing more than a false choice, and both sides are falling short. The hard right, though; and it's cry baby politics of obstruction, and demonetization, really needs to quit this nonsense. The fact that Ronald Reagan in a prayer position leads some people longing for the good old days of a man who's administration financially devastated our country in a testament to the major amount of wool that man pulled over the eyes of average folks in this country.
Chilling really.
And yes, I'm a Christian and church leader. Go to church at least once a week.
If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
Ronald Reagan
Thank God for giving us such a leader in our lifetime.
Jimmy Carter is a real man of God. Maybe not that effective as President because he wouldn't do back door deals at cocktail parties--even with Democrats who began hating him for it. But post-presidency point to any other former president who has spent his time with organizations like Habitat for Humanity--where Carter actually physically worked on homes for the poor.
Talking about God is theatrics unless one lives for God with actions.
"If it takes a bloodbath to silence the demonstrators, let's get it over with."
Words spoken by Ronald Reagan on 7 April 1970 before calling in the California Highway Patrol, the Alameda County Police and the University of California Police to use brutal and deadly force against student protesters (who were asking for a free-speech park) in Berkeley, CA. He got his bloodbath on Bloody Thursday when a man named James Rector was killed by the Alameda County Police. Reagan continued, for years, to call in force to be used against students who protested the war in Vietnam. And who protested his massive fee increases for California universities. Students were beaten. Students were tear-gassed. Students were arrested for peacefully marching. I witnessed it.
Please do not ask me to believe that Reagan was some peaceful Christian who got down on his knees. He certainly didn't live it.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 06-21-2013 at 09:08 AM..
Jimmy Carter is a real man of God. Maybe not that effective as President because he wouldn't do back door deals at cocktail parties--even with Democrats who began hating him for it. But post-presidency point to any other former president who has spent his time with organizations like Habitat for Humanity--where Carter actually physically worked on homes for the poor.
Talking about God is theatrics unless one lives for God with actions.
I admire that work of Jimmy Carter. He has given me reason to be concerned about his salvation by other works and comments. But it is not my place to judge a man.
The tragedy of our two party system for Christians is that it quite literally forces you to choose between two evils. Just because I find abortion reprehensible does not mean that I want to send troops all over the planet for mostly shady reasons under the premise of "killing the bad guys" and "defending our freedom." Just because I want to help the poor and less fortunate does not mean that I want pornography plastered absolutely everywhere and that doing so is simply "freedom of speech." Just because I want Christian morals and ideals to be upheld and defended does not mean mean that I want to empower and protect obscenely rich people.
I think Reagan was incredibly charismatic, much like our current president. He was a good deal more effective as POTUS than Obama, but what President wasn't? The point is, both men are guilty of things that were pretty un-Christian.
Reagan was also the one who coined the phrase, "Deficits don't matter," (one reason the Chief of his budget office resigned) that was repeated by Dick Cheney in defending the Bush tax cuts in the midst of a looming war and for which Repubs now blame Democrats for causing.
The Repubs also plotted, actually plotted, to take over the Southern Baptist Convention and use it as a political tool. And they were successful. A once strong religiously oriented institution has now degenerated into a quasi-political organization that still gets tax breaks.
It's also interesting to note that Repubs were first to suggest "mandated health care" back in the late eighties or early nineties, and that is one of the things that they are fighting the hardest about the ACA. Dems were astonished by resistance to what they thought Repubs would support. But Repubs are much better at changing the direction they sail and then pointing fingers at the opposite party for doing what they have suggested--witness Romney's health care in Massachusetts versus his attack on the ACA while running for President. Observers note there are few differences between the ACA and Massachusetts' mandated care.
In my younger days as a member of the SBC, a licensed minister, who took 21 college hours of critical Bible study, the SBC had a mission to make sure the people who came into that denomination got their own lives right with God and lived the kind of life that stood as a witness to others about how Jesus wanted us to live. Today, there are few people in most denominations who understand that it's how they LIVE their lives that is to be a testimony to the world. Instead they believe it is how they vote.
In 2005, Jim Wallis, a theologian, founder of Sojourner's magazine, published a book entitled God's Politics, a discussion of why the Right gets it Wrong and the Left doesn't get it. While the Right argues that God's Way is THEIR way, the Left pursues an unrealistic separation of religious values from morally grounded political leadership. The consequence is a false choice between ideological religion and souless politics.
We need more soul in our faith AND our politics, and far less theatrics.
Great post, even if it might be considered too political for this forum. For Reagan, it was probably equal parts faith and posturing. I was a conservative for most of my life religiously listening to Limbaugh and Beck thinking all liberals were atheist communists and almost laughing at anyone calling themselves a liberal Christian. Being a strong christian to me meant being a strong Republican who thinks government can't do anything right but military and Jesus hates welfare.
Then I started really studying political history and it forced me to actually listen to the deeper arguments of the left that I didn't hear on limbaugh and now I see Reagan as having economically opened pandora's box through massive taxcuts (from which we didn't get anywhere near the "trickledown" we were promised), de-regulation, and squashing rather than regulating the Unions, which set us on a path to oligarchy. Clinton further screwed us with NAFTA and I did at the time was laugh at Ross Perot's ears. I would still have taken 8 years of Reagan over 8 years of George W anyday because he didn't completely lack commonsense and he might have seen what was actually happening to the country before it was too late and maybe this time, actually listen to his advisor David Stockman who was one of the first to say their plan wasn't working: David Stockman: How Nixon, Reagan, the Bushes and their GOP Demolished the Economy - David Stockman on Deficit Spending | FlaglerLive - Your News Service for Flagler County News Palm Coast News Bunnell Flagler Beach Beverly Beach and Marineland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balunman
Get off your bleeding heart liberal high horse and come back to God and the SBC. We still love you!
LOL! Come back to God?! Whose on a high horse? You might as well be me 5 years ago before I was forced to humble myself to what was a hard truth. Read some real history and stay away from the biased sources (FOX and MSNBC). Compare the overall ecomonic effects of libertarian policies vs progressive policies here and in other countries. I'm a convert from conservatism to moderate progressivism...which means, (in the words of John Rambo)...I'm your worst nightmare
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And angry. As they said in the 80s "gag me with a spoon".
A real man of God
