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You are overreaching. The Exodus reference is not about harm to the fetus, but about harm to the woman. Check out commentaries and the historic position of Jewish peoples regarding abortion and this passage.
No over-reaching at all. Commentaries aren't scripture. And whose commentary? I can point out commentaries that contradict the ones you have. They often conflict each other because they're the works of men and not inspired by the Holy Spirit as the scriptures are. God knew us BEFORE He formed us in our mother's wombs. That's pretty clear that life begins, in God's eyes, BEFORE conception. The only arguing to that is to try to justify one's personal belief system.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that God knew us after the second trimester, and, in some cases, only after physical birth because we were just a clump of cells before that.
I believe, not sure, but believe that Catholics are the only major denomination to condemn both abortion and "legal" execution of criminals. Besides, perhaps, Quakers and Mennonites, they are the only denomination to be consistent in their view of the sanctity of life. And the Quakers even believe that the taking of life in war is prohibited for a Christian.
Other denominations spend a lot of time justifying executions while decrying abortion. They moralize the necessity of war as "justified." This inconsistency lends a lack of credibility to the "moral" testimony about abortion by such denominations and the people who proclaim such things. Either life belongs to God, or WE PEOPLE pick and choose which lives belong to the human race and which do not. If the latter, then we are simply choosing one group over another to be labeled the "murderers" in society. If life is sacred, then the choice for ending life belongs to God.
When WE begin to choose when life is sacred and when it is not, then we have made ourselves gods.
Legalizing any type of killing of humans while protesting another is hypocritical. People may pass laws to do such, but I doubt it passes spiritual muster before Jesus. As Christians let's take the beam out of our own eyes before we begin looking at those in the eyes of others.
I'm no fan of abortion although I believe we have no right to tell women what to do with their bodies. At age 70 I am yet to meet the first woman who was tormented because she aborted an unwanted fetus. Do you feel it's better to force her to have the unwanted child? You are aware I hope of the number of children killed in America each year because the mother never wanted them and can't cope with them, can't afford them etc. Children are not always a blessing to a woman. And all children born should be wanted and loved. So abortion is no exploitation of women. Forcing them to bear an unwanted child is exploiting them.
To bad you didn't meet my late sister ... she was.
But then that probably doesn't count ... you'd probably rationalized it away in order to keep that glorious perfect record and the propaganda stream going.
I am not a fan of abortion but don't believe it is my right to tell another person what to do with their body.
There is a major error in your statement; aborting a fetus/zygote is not killing a child. It is a clump of cells. If the fetus can survive on its own, and does, and is killed - I would agree that could be murder/manslaughter. If the clump of cells is just that, then sorry - not murder.
Notice the personal pronoun that God uses to describe
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceivedme.
not the dehumanization of life theory which changes it into nothing more than "clump of cells "
I believe, not sure, but believe that Catholics are the only major denomination to condemn both abortion and "legal" execution of criminals. Besides, perhaps, Quakers and Mennonites, they are the only denomination to be consistent in their view of the sanctity of life. And the Quakers even believe that the taking of life in war is prohibited for a Christian.
Other denominations spend a lot of time justifying executions while decrying abortion. They moralize the necessity of war as "justified." This inconsistency lends a lack of credibility to the "moral" testimony about abortion by such denominations and the people who proclaim such things. Either life belongs to God, or WE PEOPLE pick and choose which lives belong to the human race and which do not. If the latter, then we are simply choosing one group over another to be labeled the "murderers" in society. If life is sacred, then the choice for ending life belongs to God.
When WE begin to choose when life is sacred and when it is not, then we have made ourselves gods.
Legalizing any type of killing of humans while protesting another is hypocritical. People may pass laws to do such, but I doubt it passes spiritual muster before Jesus. As Christians let's take the beam out of our own eyes before we begin looking at those in the eyes of others.
Great post!
But I fear that those who most need to take it to heart are the least likely to read it or accept its truth.
I believe, not sure, but believe that Catholics are the only major denomination to condemn both abortion and "legal" execution of criminals. Besides, perhaps, Quakers and Mennonites, they are the only denomination to be consistent in their view of the sanctity of life. And the Quakers even believe that the taking of life in war is prohibited for a Christian.
Other denominations spend a lot of time justifying executions while decrying abortion. They moralize the necessity of war as "justified." This inconsistency lends a lack of credibility to the "moral" testimony about abortion by such denominations and the people who proclaim such things. Either life belongs to God, or WE PEOPLE pick and choose which lives belong to the human race and which do not. If the latter, then we are simply choosing one group over another to be labeled the "murderers" in society. If life is sacred, then the choice for ending life belongs to God.
When WE begin to choose when life is sacred and when it is not, then we have made ourselves gods.
Legalizing any type of killing of humans while protesting another is hypocritical. People may pass laws to do such, but I doubt it passes spiritual muster before Jesus. As Christians let's take the beam out of our own eyes before we begin looking at those in the eyes of others.
That is the absolute truth. Preach it.
I also can't figure out why so many "pro-life" people own guns and are very loud it. They don't want anyone to have an abortion but they want to be able to shoot to kill anyone carting off their laptop. (I've asked in POC, more than once, and never gotten an answer. Just the standard lecture about the Second Amendment.)
I also can't figure out why so many "pro-life" people own guns and are very loud it. They don't want anyone to have an abortion but they want to be able to shoot to kill anyone carting off their laptop. (I've asked in POC, more than once, and never gotten an answer. Just the standard lecture about the Second Amendment.)
Well, on the flip-side of that stereotype, why is it that so many "pro-choice" people who scream at the top of their lungs about the injustice of murderers receiving eye-for-an-eye punishment, and think there should be no such thing as a national defense budget, are silent about innocent life that can't plead for itself and has harmed no one being snuffed out on a whim, through no choice of it's own.
Okay, now, stereotypes aside ...
What difference does it make if some of the people who speak out against abortion have hypocritical views? That does not speak to the real issue at hand: does abortion cut short human life, or doesn't it?
The hypocrisy of some pro-lifers, perceived or real, is NOT a good argument for the pro-abortion side. That there are [in my opinion] innocent and completely vulnerable lives at stake is much too important a point to be lost in this never-ending liberal/conservative stand-off.
To bad you didn't meet my late sister ... she was.
I, too, know women who were tormented by making the choice to abort their babies. I also know women who changed their minds and made the choice to go through with their pregnancies and have never regretted it. There may very well be women who have abortions and never experience a single moment of regret, but I find it hard to believe that that is the norm.
But, as much as I wish this were a black and white, simplistic issue, it's not. If we think that by some chance we could get laws in place to ban abortion that it would make everything right and "please God", we're living in la-la land.
The whole topic overwhelms me because there are so many problems and no easy fixes. I just wish we, on both sides of the debate, could stop using the topic to attack and condemn and demonize each other, stop using it to bolster our political ideals and instead start actually seeing the individuals involved (moms and babies), helping wherever and in whatever way we can.
The hypocrisy of some pro-lifers, perceived or real, is NOT a good argument for the pro-abortion side. That there are [in my opinion] innocent and completely vulnerable lives at stake is much too important a point to be lost in this never-ending liberal/conservative stand-off.
I'm just trying to understand the mind-set.
I have a TON of respect for the person who is truly pro-life and is also anti-war, anti-guns, anti-death penalty. That is not an easy path to walk in our society.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 07-18-2013 at 07:50 PM..
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Abortion is wrong, but---
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