HELL...would a Loving God send people there? No, People send themselves there!!! (Holy Spirit, Christ)
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According to Luke 16 and Matthew 25, the fire is real, eternal, and the purpose is judgement. There is no refinement.
And BTW no where in Matt 25 does it say the fire is real physical literal fire either. How would that even do anything to the devil? Luke 16 I've already given you my view on - its a parable, as is Matt 25.
OK - the purpose is judgment.
The purpose in 1 Cor 3 is also judgment. Every man's (believers, if you will) works are judged and burned up. This is essentially a purification or refining process. Judgment is refinement.
The fire in Matt 25 or Rev 20 or even Luke 16 is also a judgment by fire.
Judgment is to set things right - refinement/purification/purging. That is essentially what all judgment is for.
There is another verse that speaks volumes on judgment:
Isaiah 26:9 When your judgments come upon the earth,
the people of the world learn righteousness.
That is the purpose right there in a nutshell, so when you say the purpose of Luke 16 or Matt 25 is judgment, I say yes! I would argue it is not real fire, nor is it eternal, as an eternal punishment is a punishment that never achieves its purpose. And its purpose is to set things right - so people will learn righteousness. (now you may have to unlearn some beleifs and be careful to not equate 'learning righteousness' with 'getting the good eternal burning they deserve')
It fits perfectly if you realize God wills and desires to save all people. Maybe you don't believe that.
But 1 Cor. 3 isn't about every man.
And no, I don't believe universalism.
There is no refinement in Luke 16 , Matt. 25, or Rev. 20.
Just like the rest of Christendom, you see the word judgement and you cannot think anything but the end of man and his destiny being tormented in eternal hell
Did you know you can be merciful in judgement ?.
James 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Just like the rest of Christendom, you see the word judgement and you cannot think anything but the end of man and his destiny being tormented in eternal hell
Did you know you can be merciful in judgement ?.
James 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
Exactly.
Too often 'judgment' is equated with 'eternal doom in hell forever', followed by look see, they are gonna get judged... they are GONNA GET IT! BURN BURN BURN!
The truth of the matter is EVERYONE, believer+unbeliever, will be judged in fire (spiritual, not literal). And it is for a good and noble purpose - so we will learn righteousness.
There is no refinement in Luke 16 , Matt. 25, or Rev. 20.
You think this only because you believe God prefers to leave people in torture forever rather than correct them and teach them what is right. You are welcome to believe that, but it is one of the biggest lies out there. I used to believe it myself.
And BTW no where in Matt 25 does it say the fire is real physical literal fire either. How would that even do anything to the devil? Luke 16 I've already given you my view on - its a parable, as is Matt 25.
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lets see.. an all knowing, unconditional loving, Omnipotent created angels who he knew one would sin and instead of destroying him, let him run wild..then made humans and kept a sin tree near by knowing that eventually they would eat from it (i mean if angels couldn't follow it, a lower class species def wouldn't follow him)...instead of destroying them or taking another route, he curses them, makes them reproduce more sinful creatures like them and, then he makes these unrealistic ass goals for us to follow, never reveals himself(at least not after the whole bible was done) then expected a different result?
so its our fault that this happen? i mean we didn't exactly ask for this
You think this only because you believe God prefers to leave people in torture forever rather than correct them and teach them what is right. You are welcome to believe that, but it is one of the biggest lies out there. I used to believe it myself.
I in turn believe universalism is a lie, a big one! The scriptural evidence is overwhelming.
Where does it say this ? Scripture says God is merciful, it does not say He is wrath. Now God never changes who He is, it is mans conception of him that changes sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Unfortunately we know which way Christendom went with it. The misconception of God by Israel was bad enough, the churches misconception took it to an all new level.
I in turn believe universalism is a lie, a big one! The scriptural evidence is overwhelming.
Actually its quite the reverse - you just have to set aside your assumptions and be open to looking at it honestly. The scriptural evidence is overwhelming that God will save all people.
Do you believe God desires to save all people? From your previous responses in this thread it sounds like you don't think He does. Just wondering.
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