HELL...would a Loving God send people there? No, People send themselves there!!! (scripture, mystic)
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1 Cor 3 is a judgment in fire of "every man's" work. You don't think unbelievers are judged in the same way?
This is analogous to Rev 20:12 where every man is judged by his works.
No. Paul speaks of works built on the foundation of Jesus Christ. Unbelievers don't do that. In verse 16, he reminds them they are the temple of God. Again, this does not apply to unbelievers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Thoughts:
What do you think the "fire" is in 1 Cor 3?
What do you think the lake of fire is?
Why is God called a consuming fire?
Daniel 12 is one case that speaks of resurrection to shame.
Isaiah 45 is another place where it talks about those who "raged against God" being put to shame.
Daniel 12
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Either the scriptures are about all of humankind and are part of the Gospel Christ desired we spread to all of humankind . . . or they aren't. You "special people" believers seem to think some of them are only about you. Where does the authority for that belief come from since God is no respecter of persons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Paul was writing to the Corinthian church. I'm surprised you don't see that.
1 Corinthians 1
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
No. Paul speaks of works built on the foundation of Jesus Christ. Unbelievers don't do that. In verse 16, he reminds them they are the temple of God. Again, this does not apply to unbelievers.
Believers and unbelievers are both judged the same way: in fire.
You didn't say what you think the fire in 1 Cor 3 is. Are believers judged, burning, in literal fire?
What about the lake of fire? What is it? Do you think the people thrown in there are burning and burning forever? Or does the fire do something useful?
Please let me know what you think on this. Do you believe the judgment fire in 1 Cor 3 is for refining, purifying, purging, but the judgment fire in Rev 20 is simply for torture?
Also: what do you think Paul is talking about exactly when he speaks of building this "foundation of Jesus Christ"? Specifically this verse:
1 Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Is the foundation talking about works in Christ, or belief in Christ?
Is it your opinion then that this verse also only applies to believers? ie. It means no believer can lay any other foundation? Or does it apply to all people?
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Sounds permanent to me.
Yes it does sound permanent, if you take this one verse in isolation.
Do you realize not all bibles translate this verse the same way? That raised a question for me when I began studying this.
The problem is this would then contradict God's oath that all would turn to Him and be saved, and it would contradict His statement that He desires and wills all people to be saved. Nor would Jesus be the savior of all men if some men were not saved. That is just how I see it. I don't expect you to see it this way. I used to see it how you do too.
Yes it does sound permanent, if you take this one verse in isolation.
Do you realize not all bibles translate this verse the same way? That raised a question for me when I began studying this.
The problem is this would then contradict God's oath that all would turn to Him and be saved, and it would contradict His statement that He desires and wills all people to be saved. Nor would Jesus be the savior of all men if some men were not saved. That is just how I see it. I don't expect you to see it this way. I used to see it how you do too.
Jesus (using the mind of Christ) will ultimately send unbelievers to hell.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' "
and the result will be ... Jesus (using the mind of Christ) said:
Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned"
which of course the God who is the same yesterday, today and forever also said:
Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
1 Chronicles 28:9 ... the Lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
Isaiah 45
22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 “I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 “They will say of Me, ‘Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.’
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25 “In the Lord all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory.”
Psalm 22
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.
Believers and unbelievers are both judged the same way: in fire.
You didn't say what you think the fire in 1 Cor 3 is. Are believers judged, burning, in literal fire?
Those whose name is in the Lamb's Book of Life are not judged on their own merit, but rather through Christ. 1 Cor. 3 refers to believers works. As to whether it's a literal fire, I assume so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
What about the lake of fire? What is it? Do you think the people thrown in there are burning and burning forever? Or does the fire do something useful?
Please let me know what you think on this. Do you believe the judgment fire in 1 Cor 3 is for refining, purifying, purging, but the judgment fire in Rev 20 is simply for torture?
1 Cor. 3 is speaking to believers (See 1 Cor. 1:1-2). Rev. 20 concerns unbelievers (those whose name is not written in the Lamb's Book of Life).
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Also: what do you think Paul is talking about exactly when he speaks of building this "foundation of Jesus Christ"? Specifically this verse:
1 Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Is the foundation talking about works in Christ, or belief in Christ?
Is it your opinion then that this verse also only applies to believers? ie. It means no believer can lay any other foundation? Or does it apply to all people?
The foundation is faith in Christ's redemptive work. Then, we build on that foundation by good works. An unbeliever cannot build on that foundation.
In verse 11, Paul is confirming what Christ said, "no one comes to the Father, except through me."
You know,I scan through this thread and see ideas based on details of parables and on the conflicting images of apocalyptic literature and I have to wonder what it is all about. I mean, if living in the Way is is own reward as I find it to be, why would I worry about what happens after when I find God to be love?
The image of Hell or any other kind of punishment? Well, it could get some people's attention, but will that make them want to live in the Way? I think not.
My goal is to lift up Christ who is the Way and hope others will see the value.
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