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Only legalists claim that the 'tithing' principle is no longer applicable today! -- Tithing is about grateful stewardship in submitting the first and best part of EVERYTHING that falls under our authority, to GOD! (gifts, talents, income, possessions, etc). Likewise, God remains as faithful to His commands and promises in Malachi, as to all of His commands and promises elsewhere.
Those who tithe clearly understand this 'principle; those who do not tithe, do not understand beyond some obscure historical context and the 'pennies in their pockets.'
Only legalists claim that the 'tithing' principle is no longer applicable today! -- Tithing is about grateful stewardship in submitting the first and best part of EVERYTHING that falls under our authority, to GOD! (gifts, talents, income, possessions, etc). Likewise, God remains as faithful to His commands and promises in Malachi, as to all of His commands and promises elsewhere.
Those who tithe clearly understand this 'principle; those who do not tithe, do not understand beyond some obscure historical context and the 'pennies in their pockets.'
The tithe was never, ever, ever "the first and best part of everything."
In fact, God specifically commanded that the tithe was not to be the first and the best. God specifically said, "When you tithe, do not choose the best...."
Only legalists claim that the 'tithing' principle is no longer applicable today! -- Tithing is about grateful stewardship in submitting the first and best part of EVERYTHING that falls under our authority, to GOD! (gifts, talents, income, possessions, etc). Likewise, God remains as faithful to His commands and promises in Malachi, as to all of His commands and promises elsewhere.
Those who tithe clearly understand this 'principle; those who do not tithe, do not understand beyond some obscure historical context and the 'pennies in their pockets.'
This has to be just about the best post I've ever seen on tithing. Thank you!
I guess that depends on how you want to define "good discussions," Vizio.
I have a feeling we're headed towards another "good discussion." What's required is sincere commitment. We can and must be sincere in our commitment to our Savior. God doesn't maintain a score card or a list of items He checks off when we've completed them, but He does know -- based on the choices we make -- how sincere we are in our commitment to Him.
Because Jesus said that He would "reward every man according to his works." Because God has always promised blessings to those who keep His commandments.
Is it obedience, or sincerity? You say you'll be rewarded for obedience....then say as long as you're sincere.
Honestly....my point is that none of us are without sin. Me...you...the apostle Paul, etc. None of us have loved God with our whole heart, soul and mind.
I'm glad I don't have to live up to that standard.
See, these "interesting discussions" always end up with your trying to back me into a corner over some choice of word.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Is it obedience, or sincerity? You say you'll be rewarded for obedience....then say as long as you're sincere.
It's both. It's not blindly going through the motions, by any means. It's loving God and being obedient to His commandments because we love Him. It's walking the walk and not just talking the talk.
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Honestly....my point is that none of us are without sin. Me...you...the apostle Paul, etc. None of us have loved God with our whole heart, soul and mind.
We all fall short. Of course we do. I don't disagree with that at all. But loving God with our whole heart, soul and mind ought to be what we strive for. Are you going to disagree with that, too?
Quote:
I'm glad I don't have to live up to that standard.
I'm glad I don't have to either. If I did, I wouldn't need a Savior, and I very much need a Savior.
Only legalists claim that the 'tithing' principle is no longer applicable today! -- Tithing is about grateful stewardship in submitting the first and best part of EVERYTHING that falls under our authority, to GOD! (gifts, talents, income, possessions, etc). Likewise, God remains as faithful to His commands and promises in Malachi, as to all of His commands and promises elsewhere.
Those who tithe clearly understand this 'principle; those who do not tithe, do not understand beyond some obscure historical context and the 'pennies in their pockets.'
The tithe was never, ever, ever "the first and best part of everything."
In fact, God specifically commanded that the tithe was not to be the first and the best. God specifically said, "When you tithe, do not choose the best...."
Could you share that information?
and does it reconcile "first fruits" and the measure by which you give so shall it shall be given unto you.
It seems I can't find the Biblical reference you mention.
and does it reconcile "first fruits" and the measure by which you give so shall it shall be given unto you.
It seems I can't find the Biblical reference you mention.
Thanks in advance
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed. -- Leviticus 27:32,33
Two points here that refute most tithe-preachers.
One, the tithe was the tenth animal that passed under the rod, not the first. So a farmer who had only nine animals (a poor farmer indeed) did not tithe an animal.
Second, the quality of the tithe animals was randomized by passing them under the rod. It was expressly prohibited to select either the best or the worst for the tithe.
The tithe was not "firstfruits." When you study the firstfruit offering, you see that because different crops come to harvest in Israel at different times of the year (and each crop at different weeks, depending on where the farmer actually lived), there were "firstfruit offerings" going on throughout the year. However, the tithe was specified for one specific time of the year, when everyone would come together in Jerusalem bringing his tithe.
When you do a real study all the OT has to say about the tithe--and what it does not say about the tithe--one of the things that becomes clear is that the tithe is not a sacrifice. Sacrifices to the Lord had an entirely different order of procedure and an entirely different intention, and you can't conflate the tithe with sacrifices.
God's intention for the tithe was to produce a horizontal relationship--fellowship within the children of Abraham. The tithe was a big national pot-luck feast. The tithe is not about of the vertical relationship between man and God, but of the horizontal relationship between believer and believer....but as made clear in the NT, we must have a proper horizontal relationship in order to have a proper vertical relationship.
Malachi 3 is addressed specifically to the priests, who, because they are Levites did not have a tribal land given to them by God. That means they did not naturally have anything to sacrifice to the Lord for their own sins and other sacrifices. The tithe to the Levites is what provided them a source of their own sacrifices.
Now, the tithe animal did not have to be perfect--it was selected as the random tenth animal. But a sacrifice animal had to be selected for its perfection.
When the other Israelites made their Levitical tithe, they followed Leviticus 27:32,33. That means the Levites ended up with the same random level of quality that the Israelites got naturally from their flocks.
God commanded randomness in tithing for a reason. Because it made the Levite's sacrifice resources of random quality, it was just as dependent on the heart of the Levite to choose the best of that for his sacrifices as it was for the other Israelites to choose the best of their flocks for their sacrifices.
That's what God is criticizing the Levites for in Malachi 3. They were taking what had been tithed to them (which was a random selection) and choosing from that the poor animals for their own sacrifices.
Christians should SURRENDER their tithes over to the Lord. 10% is a good place to start, but if 10% is not within one's means, then budget what you could freely afford to give to the Lord. In other words, if a person makes 1500 a month, but can't afford to give 150 dollars a month and if 50 dollars is doable, then stick to that until you can afford to give more. The New Testament teaches that GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER. I rather give cheerfully rather than not.
Christians should SURRENDER their tithes over to the Lord. 10% is a good place to start, but if 10% is not within one's means, then budget what you could freely afford to give to the Lord. In other words, if a person makes 1500 a month, but can't afford to give 150 dollars a month and if 50 dollars is doable, then stick to that until you can afford to give more. The New Testament teaches that GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER. I rather give cheerfully rather than not.
Either you believe in tithe or not. You can't have it both ways. According to you, one can give less than 10%. But that would rob God of helping your neighbor or the church. God said do not rob God. So which is it, 10% or less. See, there is a problem with teaching a tithe as nowhere in Scripture does it talk about money as a tithe but rather food, wine and oil.
DEUT 14:22-27 You shall truly tithe all the increase of your seed, that the field brings forth year by year. And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place which He shall choose to place His name there [Jerusalem], the tithe of you corn, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks; that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that you are not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from you, which the LORD your God shall choose to set His name there, when the LORD your God has blessed you: Then shall you turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and shall go unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose: And you shall bestow that money for whatsoever your soul desires after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever your soul desires: and you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you, and your household, And the Levite that is within your gates; you shall not forsake him; for he has no part nor inheritance with you." Money was not to be given as a tithe.
But in the third year:
DEUT 14:28-29 "At the end of three years you shall bring forth all the tithe of your increase the same year, and shall lay it up [a storehouse] within your gates [no need in third year to go to Jerusalem]: And the Levite, because he has no part nor inheritance with you, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within your gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do."
The tithe was for the person who gave, for the Levite, the poor, the fatherless, the stranger and the widow.
The fact is there is no tithe requirement in the New Testament after the day of Pentacost, only offerings as one is able to give. Do some preachers even read the Bible? They are making merchandise of the people and especially the poor and laying guilt on them. Too bad for them because they miss out on those blessings that come with preaching the Truth about tithe. They do not forfeit all blessings because they teach tithe in ignorance but certainly they forfeit the blessings associated with this tithe doctrine as it is with all doctrine taught falsely.
Breaking with Scripture means least in the Kingdom with less authority/ability to influence others for there salvation sake but he who teaches correctly and does it obtains [not earns] more blessing and therefor greater having more authority/ability in the Kingdom.
However if one wants to give 10% in money, I doubt that God frowns on that but I think He does if it is pushed on others and especially the poor as a command from God.
Last edited by garya123; 12-01-2013 at 06:27 AM..
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