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So sorry for what your endured in your 'church', Miss Blue. As I've stated before, I never in any of the churches of Chris I was a member of experienced any such thing. I was asked several times to substitute for the regular teacher of our adult Bible school. I was a youth group leader for pre teens and here were several women teachers of teenagers. I was an assistant leader of the teen group and sometimes the male leader was not there and I presented the lesson and there was no hostiity from any members. Many women had a part in the worship service and htere were a few older men who had some negative feed back about it, but they were outvoted. The only part of the service they kept for men only was the actual passing of communion but I and several other women offered communion meditaion though it was usually one of the elders who said the prayer. I am quite ok with not being asked to offer a prayer out loud in worship service. I don't think there has ever been a woman encouraged to be a pastor/minister as head of a church but I don't see it being impossible in the future. Maybe it was just the area we lived in and the fact that as autonomous churches, we were free to make policy for our own memberships.
All the wives of our visiting missionaries were vital parts of the team. Ministers were not given any titles that differentiated him from the rest of us. I no longer attend that church as I believe in universal reconciliation now but I have no ill experiences from the years I spent in it.
The church that Christ built and continues to build is spiritual..It is within those who follow his ways of love,repentance. His word is written in our hearts.
"His yoke is easy and His burden is light"
It cannot be found by following the rules of spiritually blinded and mostly misguided men following men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue
Linux, I have tried to make peace with my in-laws and former "church family", but you sound a lot like what they continuously accuse me of. Especially your snarky little vieled reference to my eternal burning in the pits of hell.
The post of mine that you quoted above is from my heart and I stand by it.
Your frustration with unreasoning credulity and ego-driven nonsense is completely understandable, Miss Blue. Christ made no such rules and would abide no such differences among His disciples, period. Your heartfelt and sincere posts are a blessing for us all. The Holy Spirit is strong in your heart, Miss Blue. The Holy Spirit will not and does not condemn anyone to such a ridiculous man-made fate. We will reap what we sow and have not repented of . . . no more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linux180
So I guess you think that the Apostles were misguided by Christ then, because the church of Christ today follows, teaches and adheres to the exact same scriptural teachings and doctrine that Christ taught the Apostles...
Christ's church is Spiritual, but it's made up of members that are alive and being obedient to him today and it includes the ones that were obedient to him unto their deaths and have passed from this natural life...
What you are calling Christ's church is a man-made religion replete with man-made rules and restrictions created long after the death of Christ by men . . . in spite of Christ's direct instruction that no one was to be first among His followers (meaning no hierarchy or authority over one another). The cultural conditions and status differences among men and women regarding religious instruction and education at that time produced the rules for that era . . . NOT for all time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linux180
I don't know what you mean about not being worthy of the Lords Super or why they said you were a filthy rag in Gods eyes, but as far as the rest of the things you mentioned up at the top, it just sounds to me like you just don't like what the truth of the Scriptures and Christ's instructions say... Because the scriptures are pretty clear on womens role in church and about the false doctrines of denominational churches.... But you are still required to be obedient to all Christ's instructions whether you like them or not, not just the ones you like and if you're not obedient to all of them, well we both know what is going to happen to the people who are not obedient now don't we? ...
You are not edifying Christ's followers . . . you are sowing discord and division by pretending to superior knowledge about Christ and His wishes. There is little love in your posts and a whole lot of discord and dissension. Reflect on that, Linux. I doubt it is what Christ wanted for His Good News (Gospel).
You need to study and learn the scriptures before you come out into the world trying to lead people falsely and in the wrong direction like you areto your death...I'd be very careful if I were you...! And the name of the church does matter..! Christ's name carries with it all authority, it was he who purchased the church with his blood, it is he who is head of the church and it will be him that judges the world.... No, you can't go by the names Baptist, Pentecostal, Catho, on the Day of Judgement you will not be looked upon favorably by Christ if you continue to mislead people unlic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglicans and etc etc... Because Christ's Blood wasn't spilled for those man-made churches, the people who follow the doctrines of those denominational churches have the chance right now to accept the truth and obey The Lord if they wish to be saved and spend eternity in the presence of The Lord.... Why would anybody want to go by any other name than Christ's name..?
Thank you for the chastisement and accusations. Very Impressive. (not)
I speak only the truth, many people seem to preach one thing and practice another. They include the pornographers, wife beaters, alcoholics that I met, in person, at a church of christ congregation in Dallas, Texas. Then there are those who outright hate anyone who is not part of their church, including anyone who does not have white skin, who is a part of another congregation, and in short won't bow to every last thing these church members say. I know, because I encountered it in person. The congregation is located on Earl Rudder freeway in College Station , Texas.
SO spouting verses (from a book of myth) does not impress me. Living your life with judgement day and death as a goal does not impress me either.
What does impress me is how much love you show to your fellow man. How many lives did you touch today, when you were not busy trolling the city data forums? Did you tend to the sick and bereaved, those who need hope that above all else, things can get better in life? Did you help a veteran pay for a breakfast when he was a few cents short? Did you hold the door for a lady with a baby in her arms who could not even speak English, just to make her life a little easier. Did you smile and act friendly to a total stranger, because it is the right thing to do?
Or were you too busy mining a book, which does not impress many of us, crying for judgement day and berating anyone who does not have your beliefs? I am not impressed, and like I said , Jesus would be turning over in his grave at the thought of such things, his self proclaimed followers putting up strife and barriers towards each other and sowing discontent in the name of some religion.
If you are such a hate monger, try visiting one of the two churches I mentioned. If you are into racism, into white supremacy, into judging others, into battering your spouse and children, and turning a blind eye to the problems in the here and now of society, then you'd fit right in to these two churches. For people like myself, I just shake my head and say "Disgusting" and walk away. And no sentences you can take out of any book will change the fact that I am right, and the churches, religions and situations I mentioned before, basically.....SUCK. And no quoting books, or saying "OH OH I ma a member of the church of christ so it is ok when we do that" will make it right in anyone's eyes.
Your frustration with unreasoning credulity and ego-driven nonsense is completely understandable, Miss Blue. Christ made no such rules and would abide no such differences among His disciples, period. Your heartfelt and sincere posts are a blessing for us all. The Holy Spirit is strong in your heart, Miss Blue. The Holy Spirit will not and does not condemn anyone to such a ridiculous man-made fate. We will reap what we sow and have not repented of . . . no more.
What you are calling Christ's church is a man-made religion replete with man-made rules and restrictions created long after the death of Christ by men . . . in spite of Christ's direct instruction that no one was to be first among His followers (meaning no hierarchy or authority over one another). The cultural conditions and status differences among men and women regarding religious instruction and education at that time produced the rules for that era . . . NOT for all time.
You are not edifying Christ's followers . . . you are sowing discord and division by pretending to superior knowledge about Christ and His wishes. There is little love in your posts and a whole lot of discord and dissension. Reflect on that, Linux. I doubt it is what Christ wanted for His Good News (Gospel).
mystic-
1. characterized by esoteric, otherworldly, or symbolic practices or content, as certain religious ceremonies and art.
2. involving mysteries known only to the initiated.
3. of occult character or significance.
4. involving mystics or mysticism.
5. a person who claims insight into mysteries transcending ordinary human knowledge, as by direct communication with the divine or immediate intuition in a state of spiritual ecstasy.
6. a person initiated into religious mysteries.
There's nothing mystical about the Gospel of Christ, it's crystal clear, you're the one claiming that you have superior, other worldly knowledge of Christ's instructions and wishes..... And yes, to correct someone in their falsity and tell them the truth is Love, you yourself need to reflect....
Thank you for the chastisement and accusations. Very Impressive. (not)
I speak only the truth, many people seem to preach one thing and practice another. They include the pornographers, wife beaters, alcoholics that I met, in person, at a church of christ congregation in Dallas, Texas. Then there are those who outright hate anyone who is not part of their church, including anyone who does not have white skin, who is a part of another congregation, and in short won't bow to every last thing these church members say. I know, because I encountered it in person. The congregation is located on Earl Rudder freeway in College Station , Texas.
SO spouting verses (from a book of myth) does not impress me. Living your life with judgement day and death as a goal does not impress me either.
What does impress me is how much love you show to your fellow man. How many lives did you touch today, when you were not busy trolling the city data forums? Did you tend to the sick and bereaved, those who need hope that above all else, things can get better in life? Did you help a veteran pay for a breakfast when he was a few cents short? Did you hold the door for a lady with a baby in her arms who could not even speak English, just to make her life a little easier. Did you smile and act friendly to a total stranger, because it is the right thing to do?
Or were you too busy mining a book, which does not impress many of us, crying for judgement day and berating anyone who does not have your beliefs? I am not impressed, and like I said , Jesus would be turning over in his grave at the thought of such things, his self proclaimed followers putting up strife and barriers towards each other and sowing discontent in the name of some religion.
If you are such a hate monger, try visiting one of the two churches I mentioned. If you are into racism, into white supremacy, into judging others, into battering your spouse and children, and turning a blind eye to the problems in the here and now of society, then you'd fit right in to these two churches. For people like myself, I just shake my head and say "Disgusting" and walk away. And no sentences you can take out of any book will change the fact that I am right, and the churches, religions and situations I mentioned before, basically.....SUCK. And no quoting books, or saying "OH OH I ma a member of the church of christ so it is ok when we do that" will make it right in anyone's eyes.
Your nonsense doesn't effect me LargeKingCat, I couldn't care less what impresses you or anyone else, to do that is to do for the glory of men....No, you do not speak the truth, by the things you say, you don't even know the truth...But you have heard it, so you will have no excuse...Good luck with that, I don't have to tolerate that, even God eventually gives you over to a reprobate mind....
There's nothing mystical about the Gospel of Christ, it's crystal clear, you're the one claiming that you have superior, other worldly knowledge of Christ's instructions and wishes..... And yes, to correct someone in their falsity and tell them the truth is Love, you yourself need to reflect....
The Gospel is clear and unambiguous because Christ's life, teachings and death were unambiguous. They revealed the true nature of God . . . contradicting the superstitious, savage and barbaric OT beliefs about blood sacrifice and appeasement of a vengeful jealous War God. Christ smote no one despite scourging and crucifixion . . . even forgiving His torturers and murderers! That is our loving and forgiving God. By retaining the savage beliefs about God of our ignorant ancestors . . . your so-called church has corrupted Christ's Gospel beyond recognition. God IS love and we as Christ's disciples are instructed to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't, period. That is how we follow Christ. Christ is the Way and the Way is a path. Paths are to be followed . . . not merely believed in. It does you no good to believe that a path will lead where you wish to be . . . if you do not follow it!
Well, Mystic, that is the problem when you stop thinking, and start living by a literal translation of a book, as so many on here have done.
I would present this to anyone who truly believes that he or she can defend the actions of anyone in the church of christ, based on membership and profession a of faith.
1 When we were in college, my girlfriend, who was a member of the coc, was talking on Sunday evening to one of her friends, who was a junior in high school. She was wearing an excessive amount of makeup, told my gf about how her dad had been drunk the night before, punched her in the face, now she had a bruised cheek and back eye. (Of course, in my opinion, what kind of a man does it take to hit on a 100 pound teenage girl? Try that with me, and find out instantly if your Jesus is real or not.) But according ot the congregants of this church, who spoke out on this later, the guy was within his rights to discipline his daughter (abuse?) according to some stupid Bible verse, and since he was a member of the church of Christ, who believed that
God has eternally existed.
That he is:
Omnipotent — all-powerful.
Omniscient — all-knowing.
Omnipresent — everywhere present.
Creator of heaven and earth and everything in them.
Sustainer of our lives.
Gen. 1:1, Gen. 1:27
We believe in the God Head which consists of the Father, the Son and the Spirit, and that we are made in God’s image.
1 John 5:8, Genesis 1:26, Matthew 28:19
The foundation of our faith is the Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We believe the Christ Jesus the Son of God died for our sins and was raised again, establishing a process to redeem our loss condition.
Luke 24:46-49, Luke 24:46-49, Acts 10:38-44
We believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.
He is coequal with God, the one and only Son of God who died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead. He offers us eternal life as a free gift.
He was born of a virgin.
He was tempted in all ways as we are.
He was sinless.
God laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He died for our sins.
He rose from the dead for our salvation.
He is at the right hand of God making intercession continually before our God.....and so on etc ad nauseum
.
SO again, why does this Great Christian feel that he must resort to violence with family members? Because he is part of a self loathing religion, who beyond it all, feels and practices hate, fear mongering, and does not know the first thing about peace and love. Which makes his religion Pretty much worthless. Maybe he would be more at home with the Taliban?
2 A supposed "deacon" of the same church of Christ called me once a few days before Christmas, had heard probably from my late father in law, that I was attending a Christmas Eve Mass along with my new bride. He proceeds to tell me that I had not right to do this, etc, that I should not do it, etc. The conversation got pretty ugly before he hung up, four letter words and everything. I again offered him the chance to come and try to stop me, which has been an offer I have made to any coc member since: If you do not like the way I attend Advent service at a catholic or episcopal church, PLEASE come and TRY to stop me. You can find out instantly if your god is real or not! But again, no takers, no one willing to put their lives on the line of where their faith is. This equals shallow faith, fear. Fear and hatred, something that breeds within these church members which seems to make them obsessed with the actions of others, but blind to their own failures and shortcomings. Kind of like HYPOCRITES, and in America, we do not interfere with the worship of others. We have laws concerning that. And don't say "Oh Oh the Bible is a law, the Bible is nothing but myth and has no bearing in this discussion.
So lets see, you have a congregation full of hypocrites, shallow people, fear mongers, racists, hate mongers, gay bashers, wife beaters, alcoholics. Oh did I mention the guy in the same congregation getting busted for pornography? See, there was a city regulation against the renting or sales of pornographic material and this guy was doing it anyway. After receiving a warning and continuing, his shop was raided, closed, he was arrested and fined. Of course, that was ok because he and his family were members of the church of christ who
believed that God has eternally existed.
That he is:
Omnipotent — all-powerful.
Omniscient — all-knowing.
Omnipresent — everywhere present.
Creator of heaven and earth and everything in them.
Sustainer of our lives.
Gen. 1:1, Gen. 1:27
We believe in the God Head which consists of the Father, the Son and the Spirit, and that we are made in God’s image.
1 John 5:8, Genesis 1:26, Matthew 28:19
The foundation of our faith is the Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We believe the Christ Jesus the Son of God died for our sins and was raised again, establishing a process to redeem our loss condition.
Luke 24:46-49, Luke 24:46-49, Acts 10:38-44
We believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.
He is coequal with God, the one and only Son of God who died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead. He offers us eternal life as a free gift.
He was born of a virgin.
He was tempted in all ways as we are.
He was sinless.
God laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He died for our sins.
He rose from the dead for our salvation.
He is at the right hand of God making intercession continually before our God.....etc etc ad nauseum garbagola
So you take my experiences there, look at why I had nothing to do with them, how I endured enough verbal abuse from speaking out, and eventually ended up as an up and coming atheist leader, and wonder where did the church go wrong? NO the church will remain in the fantasy world of afterlife and judgement that it always has, and still never be able to address the actions listed above.
Interestingly, no member of a church of christ has eve come forward and said that any of the above listed people were out of line, even the purveyor of porn, especially the deacon, but many members of the church have, as we see, condemned and berated me for bringing up or calling attention to the situation.
My vindication is that I have a great life without God, I financially support groups such as DFW Atheists (even though I no longer live there) and speak out openly against the dangers of religions, using the aforementioned examples that no one from the coc can defend.
Well, Mystic, that is the problem when you stop thinking, and start living by a literal translation of a book, as so many on here have done.
I would present this to anyone who truly believes that he or she can defend the actions of anyone in the church of christ, based on membership and profession a of faith.
1 When we were in college, my girlfriend, who was a member of the coc, was talking on Sunday evening to one of her friends, who was a junior in high school. She was wearing an excessive amount of makeup, told my gf about how her dad had been drunk the night before, punched her in the face, now she had a bruised cheek and back eye. (Of course, in my opinion, what kind of a man does it take to hit on a 100 pound teenage girl? Try that with me, and find out instantly if your Jesus is real or not.) But according ot the congregants of this church, who spoke out on this later, the guy was within his rights to discipline his daughter (abuse?) according to some stupid Bible verse, and since he was a member of the church of Christ, who believed that
God has eternally existed.
That he is:
Omnipotent — all-powerful.
Omniscient — all-knowing.
Omnipresent — everywhere present.
Creator of heaven and earth and everything in them.
Sustainer of our lives.
Gen. 1:1, Gen. 1:27
We believe in the God Head which consists of the Father, the Son and the Spirit, and that we are made in God’s image.
1 John 5:8, Genesis 1:26, Matthew 28:19
The foundation of our faith is the Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We believe the Christ Jesus the Son of God died for our sins and was raised again, establishing a process to redeem our loss condition.
Luke 24:46-49, Luke 24:46-49, Acts 10:38-44
We believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.
He is coequal with God, the one and only Son of God who died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead. He offers us eternal life as a free gift.
He was born of a virgin.
He was tempted in all ways as we are.
He was sinless.
God laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He died for our sins.
He rose from the dead for our salvation.
He is at the right hand of God making intercession continually before our God.....and so on etc ad nauseum
.
SO again, why does this Great Christian feel that he must resort to violence with family members? Because he is part of a self loathing religion, who beyond it all, feels and practices hate, fear mongering, and does not know the first thing about peace and love. Which makes his religion Pretty much worthless. Maybe he would be more at home with the Taliban?
2 A supposed "deacon" of the same church of Christ called me once a few days before Christmas, had heard probably from my late father in law, that I was attending a Christmas Eve Mass along with my new bride. He proceeds to tell me that I had not right to do this, etc, that I should not do it, etc. The conversation got pretty ugly before he hung up, four letter words and everything. I again offered him the chance to come and try to stop me, which has been an offer I have made to any coc member since: If you do not like the way I attend Advent service at a catholic or episcopal church, PLEASE come and TRY to stop me. You can find out instantly if your god is real or not! But again, no takers, no one willing to put their lives on the line of where their faith is. This equals shallow faith, fear. Fear and hatred, something that breeds within these church members which seems to make them obsessed with the actions of others, but blind to their own failures and shortcomings. Kind of like HYPOCRITES, and in America, we do not interfere with the worship of others. We have laws concerning that. And don't say "Oh Oh the Bible is a law, the Bible is nothing but myth and has no bearing in this discussion.
So lets see, you have a congregation full of hypocrites, shallow people, fear mongers, racists, hate mongers, gay bashers, wife beaters, alcoholics. Oh did I mention the guy in the same congregation getting busted for pornography? See, there was a city regulation against the renting or sales of pornographic material and this guy was doing it anyway. After receiving a warning and continuing, his shop was raided, closed, he was arrested and fined. Of course, that was ok because he and his family were members of the church of christ who
believed that God has eternally existed.
That he is:
Omnipotent — all-powerful.
Omniscient — all-knowing.
Omnipresent — everywhere present.
Creator of heaven and earth and everything in them.
Sustainer of our lives.
Gen. 1:1, Gen. 1:27
We believe in the God Head which consists of the Father, the Son and the Spirit, and that we are made in God’s image.
1 John 5:8, Genesis 1:26, Matthew 28:19
The foundation of our faith is the Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We believe the Christ Jesus the Son of God died for our sins and was raised again, establishing a process to redeem our loss condition.
Luke 24:46-49, Luke 24:46-49, Acts 10:38-44
We believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.
He is coequal with God, the one and only Son of God who died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead. He offers us eternal life as a free gift.
He was born of a virgin.
He was tempted in all ways as we are.
He was sinless.
God laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He died for our sins.
He rose from the dead for our salvation.
He is at the right hand of God making intercession continually before our God.....etc etc ad nauseum garbagola
So you take my experiences there, look at why I had nothing to do with them, how I endured enough verbal abuse from speaking out, and eventually ended up as an up and coming atheist leader, and wonder where did the church go wrong? NO the church will remain in the fantasy world of afterlife and judgement that it always has, and still never be able to address the actions listed above.
Interestingly, no member of a church of christ has eve come forward and said that any of the above listed people were out of line, even the purveyor of porn, especially the deacon, but many members of the church have, as we see, condemned and berated me for bringing up or calling attention to the situation.
My vindication is that I have a great life without God, I financially support groups such as DFW Atheists (even though I no longer live there) and speak out openly against the dangers of religions, using the aforementioned examples that no one from the coc can defend.
I don't know why the people you're talking about do what they do and as I said before, they can claim and profess to be Christians, but that doesn't make it so, I can profess to be an airplane pilot, but that doesn't make it so now does it, the people that do the things you are talking about and claim to be Christians are clearly not Christians because they clearly do not live the way they are told to live...
I am asking, why would a coc defend, and condone, the listed behaviors (or in England, Behaviours) which are so non-christian, or unchristian, and say "Well that is ok, he is a member of the church so all is well regardless"...?
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