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OK Thanks Katie, that does lend some clue as to why the coc's in the aforementioned town did not want to participate in the ecumenical/community charitable program. Since they clearly thought that there was some theological discrepancy with other religions, although the purpose of this group was to come together to help those who ned it. As in CHARITY
However, I am still amiss as to why certain groups claim to be the only ones going to heaven.
I can name names, probably should not, in all fairness, but I would say that it undermines the entire concept of enlightenment to make claims to have some exclusive gift/knowledge/inspiration. My experince has been that anyone who makes such claim generally does not, because those who live a life worthy or attention and emulation need not advertise or brag, and those who do brag are often found to be the most deceptive.
The key to understanding that the CoC people hold themselves out as the only church is this.
Do they teach that baptism is required to achieve salvation? (the answer is always yes)
Do they allow you to join with their local congregation based on your baptism from another church such as a non denominational church or a Baptist church? (the answer is always no)
So they do not believe anyone not baptized by them are saved. Hence if your not saved your not part of the church.
The key to understanding that the CoC people hold themselves out as the only church is this.
Do they teach that baptism is required to achieve salvation? (the answer is always yes)
Do they allow you to join with their local congregation based on your baptism from another church such as a non denominational church or a Baptist church? (the answer is always no)
So they do not believe anyone not baptized by them are saved. Hence if your not saved your not part of the church.
Yes, baptism is required for salvation. The Scriptures teach that.
No one "joins" a church of Christ. Anyone can worship with them. All are welcome. The Lord does the adding.
You are judging all churches of Christ and every individual member. How did you become such an expert at what each congregation does or does not do?
OK Thanks Katie, that does lend some clue as to why the coc's in the aforementioned town did not want to participate in the ecumenical/community charitable program. Since they clearly thought that there was some theological discrepancy with other religions, although the purpose of this group was to come together to help those who ned it. As in CHARITY
However, I am still amiss as to why certain groups claim to be the only ones going to heaven.
I can name names, probably should not, in all fairness, but I would say that it undermines the entire concept of enlightenment to make claims to have some exclusive gift/knowledge/inspiration. My experince has been that anyone who makes such claim generally does not, because those who live a life worthy or attention and emulation need not advertise or brag, and those who do brag are often found to be the most deceptive.
I have no doubt that some groups make the claim, and they are WRONG. But it is just as wrong to lump all churches of Christ into one group and say they are all that way.
I have no idea why some groups say that they are the only ones going to heaven. It's so disheartening to know that some think so highly of themselves.
I will say this, however. When Jesus comes again, He is coming for His church, not churches. There is only on body. It's up to each of us to study His word and know that our doctrine is according to His teachings and not our own.
As a baptist who used to attend a Church of Christ and who still sympathizes with their theology, I'd like to comment, based on my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by July 8th
The key to understanding that the CoC people hold themselves out as the only church is this.
Do they teach that baptism is required to achieve salvation? (the answer is always yes)
In my experience this his true, although I was never taught that salvation was achieved by baptism but rather salvation was given by God at baptism.
Quote:
Do they allow you to join with their local congregation based on your baptism from another church such as a non denominational church or a Baptist church? (the answer is always no)
In my experience this is not true of the Church of Christ. The Church of Christ allowed me to join with their local congregation based upon my baptism from another church. However, as an aside, when I first joined the Baptist church I was required to be rebaptized because my baptism by immersion in a non-denominational church was not accepted by that local Baptist congregation (it was a Southern Baptist Church).
Quote:
So they do not believe anyone not baptized by them are saved. Hence if your not saved your not part of the church.
Again, I did not find this true in the Church of Christ but did find it true in a Southern Baptist congregation.
From my many years (nearly half a century) of experiences as a member, or visitor of various cofc's all over the East ,South and Midwest ..I have heard it said many, many times that it is very doubtful you will see your loved ones in heaven if you were not immersed in the waters of baptism after you have followed the plan of salvation "hear, believe, repent, be baptized for the remission of your sins". Best to be safe, than sorry .
I have been a member or visitor of three different congregations where an "unsaved", "unbaptized" spouse of a member of the cofc was in hospital, near death, and were surrounded by the preacher, elders, and devout church members prayerfully convincing the patient they "still had time to be "saved" just let us take you down to the chapel and baptize you".
One never made it to the elevator.
One did make it to the baptismal, was baptized and died later that day.
One with an aorta aneurism scheduled for surgery within hours never made it to the door of the room.
In all these cases the patient was frightened,just in case, they were right, and against Drs judgements and hospital policy chose to "be saved..for their family, and the church..(btw, in cases like this the hospital asks the patient to sign a waiver of some sort)
Another thing heard over and over again is "Well I can't say for sure who will be in heaven, but wouldn't you rather be in a building with His name on it than any other name, if He came back on Sunday to gather His bride."
I understand though that Katie's, and some other individuals experiences of membership may be the exception.
From my many years (nearly half a century) of experiences as a member, or visitor of various cofc's all over the East ,South and Midwest ..I have heard it said many, many times that it is very doubtful you will see your loved ones in heaven if you were not immersed in the waters of baptism after you have followed the plan of salvation "hear, believe, repent, be baptized for the remission of your sins". Best to be safe, than sorry .
I have been a member or visitor of three different congregations where an "unsaved", "unbaptized" spouse of a member of the cofc was in hospital, near death, and were surrounded by the preacher, elders, and devout church members prayerfully convincing the patient they "still had time to be "saved" just let us take you down to the chapel and baptize you".
One never made it to the elevator.
One did make it to the baptismal, was baptized and died later that day.
One with an aorta aneurism scheduled for surgery within hours never made it to the door of the room.
In all these cases the patient was frightened,just in case, they were right, and against Drs judgements and hospital policy chose to "be saved..for their family, and the church..(btw, in cases like this the hospital asks the patient to sign a waiver of some sort)
Another thing heard over and over again is "Well I can't say for sure who will be in heaven, but wouldn't you rather be in a building with His name on it than any other name, if He came back on Sunday to gather His bride."
I understand though that Katie's, and some other individuals experiences of membership may be the exception.
Jesus not only commissioned us to make disciples and baptize them, but He said we must teach them to observe everything He commanded.
The people you mentioned in the hospital were following Jesus' commission. I wasn't there, and I can't speak for their demeanor, or how they presented themselves, but I would be willing to bet that they truly cared about the dying person's future prospects, or they wouldn't have been there at all. I think it speaks to the credit of those elders, members and preacher.
I believe it is important that we wear a Biblical name. I don't necessarily think it should be church of Christ. There are many names for the Lord's church found in the New Testament. Is it wrong to name a church for it's leader? Let's say for example, Lutheran? I don't know. Only God knows that. I think it is wrong to judge an entire group of people by the name they wear. As a matter of fact, I think it's wrong to judge, period.
The best any of us can do is study the Scriptures daily, and pray very very hard that we are following the doctrine of Jesus and His apostles. By the Scriptures, we can judge whether a doctrine is false or not. We have the right to do that, but we don't have the right to judge entire groups of people or individuals salvation. It's not our call to make.
I think both your experiences and my experiences and others experiences are all exceptions. We cannot lump an entire group of people into our own personal experiences. None of us have experienced every single group of churches of Christ. Does that make sense? That would be like my saying that the Lighthouse church down the road has loud rock music playing each Sunday, and people are up and dancing in the aisles, therefore, all Lighthouse churches do this. Unless I am personally privy to what every single congregation does, I have no right to judge them. I don't have the right to judge them personally anyway. But I can judge their doctrines and practices.
By the way, not all of my church of Christ experiences were ideal. I, too, have met some who go beyond what is written, but that doesn't make them all bad.
From my many years (nearly half a century) of experiences as a member, or visitor of various cofc's all over the East ,South and Midwest ..I have heard it said many, many times that it is very doubtful you will see your loved ones in heaven if you were not immersed in the waters of baptism after you have followed the plan of salvation "hear, believe, repent, be baptized for the remission of your sins". Best to be safe, than sorry .
I have been a member or visitor of three different congregations where an "unsaved", "unbaptized" spouse of a member of the cofc was in hospital, near death, and were surrounded by the preacher, elders, and devout church members prayerfully convincing the patient they "still had time to be "saved" just let us take you down to the chapel and baptize you".
One never made it to the elevator.
One did make it to the baptismal, was baptized and died later that day.
One with an aorta aneurism scheduled for surgery within hours never made it to the door of the room.
In all these cases the patient was frightened,just in case, they were right, and against Drs judgements and hospital policy chose to "be saved..for their family, and the church..(btw, in cases like this the hospital asks the patient to sign a waiver of some sort)
Another thing heard over and over again is "Well I can't say for sure who will be in heaven, but wouldn't you rather be in a building with His name on it than any other name, if He came back on Sunday to gather His bride."
I understand though that Katie's, and some other individuals experiences of membership may be the exception.
OMG !!
You are correct about katie and her testimony that is a for sure thing.....
I guess it really shows how it's not the Church but the people.... I believe that in all the denominations you are going to experience, find that there are God's people within that congregation and then there are the people's people.... making their own rules and etc., rather then following Jesus !!
I agree Cyber that we find Christ's church within other denominations, and in places outside of Sunday morning worship service.
For myself, it doesn't matter anymore where or who anyone spends their Sunday mornings worshipping with. What matters is that they project the love of Christ in their words, deeds and actions to all every day of the week.
OMG !!
You are correct about katie and her testimony that is a for sure thing.....
I guess it really shows how it's not the Church but the people.... I believe that in all the denominations you are going to experience, find that there are God's people within that congregation and then there are the people's people.... making their own rules and etc., rather then following Jesus !!
Yes, the church is the people, and not the building or the sign that is out front. Jesus will judge us in the end based on His word.
God bless,
Katie
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OMG !! 