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Wine or grape juice is not a big issue in itself, but if a denomination will teach flawed doctrine on such a clear and obvious issue, what about the not so clear issues, such as baptism, eternal security, eternal torment, the significance of communion, etc.? How can their teachings be trusted?
Wine or grape juice is not a big issue in itself, but if a denomination will teach flawed doctrine on such a clear and obvious issue, what about the not so clear issues, such as baptism, eternal security, eternal torment, the significance of communion, etc.? How can their teachings be trusted?
That's a pretty big leap IMO. You say it's not a big issue, but then you lead us to believe that there is a very specific, clear cut doctrine concerning wine or grape juice. In a round about way, you say that the doctrine you buy into is the correct one, therefore, if what others believe is different than your doctrine, then every other doctrine such as baptism, and everything you listed falls like a house of cards. IOW, everyone should test all of their doctrine against what you believe about wine or grape juice. RIDICULOUS!
Sounds like you're trying to find something wrong with the coC, and wine vs grape juice is the only thing you can come up with.
Wine or grape juice is not a big issue in itself, but if a denomination will teach flawed doctrine on such a clear and obvious issue, what about the not so clear issues, such as baptism, eternal security, eternal torment, the significance of communion, etc.? How can their teachings be trusted?
There is no word in New Testament Greek for unfermented grape juice. All juice from grapes is referred to as wine whether it is fermented or not. Obviously fermentation is a process that takes time, therefore juice from the grape that has not had this time is not fermented. New Testament people still called that wine. We would call it grape juice.
There is no word in New Testament Greek for unfermented grape juice. All juice from grapes is referred to as wine whether it is fermented or not. Obviously fermentation is a process that takes time, therefore juice from the grape that has not had this time is not fermented. New Testament people still called that wine. We would call it grape juice.
Forgive me if I point out that the Greek word "oinos" can be interpreted as either grape juice or fermented wine according to some lexicons. However, it is clear from the context that in many cases it is undoubtedly fermented wine.
Sounds like you're trying to find something wrong with the coC, and wine vs grape juice is the only thing you can come up with.
Katie
You misjudge me. I don't want to discredit the Church of Christ. There is not one established denomination that teaches the pure Word of God that I have found. Church of Christ is closer than most IMHO and I will probably fellowship at one if the opportunity arises. I will try not to become one who is "contentious over the scriptures" if I do. The instruction is to fellowship with other believers, not to argue over points of doctrine. I ask your forgiveness.
BTW, I don't drink alcohol at all, but not because I believe it's a sin.
You misjudge me. I don't want to discredit the Church of Christ. There is not one established denomination that teaches the pure Word of God that I have found. Church of Christ is closer than most IMHO and I will probably fellowship at one if the opportunity arises. I will try not to become one who is "contentious over the scriptures" if I do. The instruction is to fellowship with other believers, not to argue over points of doctrine. I ask your forgiveness.
BTW, I don't drink alcohol at all, but not because I believe it's a sin.
I apologize for misjudging you, and I appreciate your comments about the church of Christ. I hope and pray you do fellowship with them. You are correct that we are to fellowship with other believers. But it is not wrong to contend for the faith. If we don't, who will? We cannot allow false doctrine to be preached. If not for the contenders of the faith, where would we be today? I think the thing to be aware of is how we contend. It needs to be done with the right heart. Sometimes that can be hard, and I'm not terribly good at it, though I do try. We are only human, and sometimes we respond to people out of anger or some other wrong motive and not love. I know it is a constant battle for me. I have to keep asking for God's help and guidance to keep my comments scriptural and not personal.
You have nothing to apologize for. Your post gave me a huge lift! Thank you.
Forgive me if I point out that the Greek word "oinos" can be interpreted as either grape juice or fermented wine according to some lexicons. However, it is clear from the context that in many cases it is undoubtedly fermented wine.
I would be interested in reading any information you have on this topic. I've never really studied it, but I'd like to.
Forgive me if I point out that the Greek word "oinos" can be interpreted as either grape juice or fermented wine according to some lexicons. However, it is clear from the context that in many cases it is undoubtedly fermented wine.
Certainly. And in some contexts it appears not to be fermented wine.
Alexander Campbell did not start The church of Christ
Jesus started the church of Christ (Matthew 16:18). It began when the gospel was first preached and obeyed in Acts 2:36-47. The church began it's worship that day (which was a Sunday) (Acts 2:42). What I do and Alexander Campbell did and others is point people back to the New Testament pattern of salvation, worship and church organization. We merely want to be no more and no less than the church we read about in the New Testament. The Bible states there is but one body (Ephesians 4:4), and that one body is the church (Ephesians 2:21,22) Further, "There is One Faith..."(Ephesians 4:5). Look up the word faith in Strong's concordance or other reliable dictionaries and you will find that mean "the one true system of religion." There is a doctrine of Christ that we are warned not to go beyond (2 John 9). In fact, we are not to add to nor take away from His Word (Revelation 22:18,19). If we all were alive on the Day of Pentecost when the gospel was first preached and the church started, we would all be members of the church of Christ. The Lord ADDED the obedient to the church as they were baptized (Acts 2:38-41, 47). Again, all I want to be is a member of that body and practice that faith we read about in the New Testament. It is a deceptive comment to tell people that Alexander Campbell or any other man started the church of Christ. Let's not go there.
So, those Christians living in oppressed countries who cannot gather together in any sort of church for fear of being put to death because they are Christian, are not really part of the body of Christ anyway?
I don't think so.
Jesus knows who His children are. Just because you belong to a particular church does not mean you have been adopted into God's family.
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Thank you.
Alexander Campbell did not start The church of Christ
