The Bible is: (church, believer, scripture, Jesus Christ)
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I could say that these words I am writing at this moment are the word of God. That proves nothing. Most bibliolatrist decide the bible is the word of God without trying to use reason.
True, you can say anything is the Word of God, but it must meet certain criteria as Josh McDowell in his book Evidence Without A Verdict details before it is the Word of God. Just because I say the Campbell's Tomato Soup label is God's Word does not mean it is God's Word. "'How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'' When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing the LORD has not spoken."' Additionally, I would not want to put myself in the false prophet situation for "... the prophet who shall speak a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he shall speak in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die."
I know you do not accept The Bible as God's Word. You've made that clear in your multitude of posts claiming the Apostle Paul corrupted Jesus' teachings, God's portrayal in the OT does not suit your tastes and Satan can not be real because your dad said he wasn't, are but three of many reasons you've given.
I've been reading, studying, preaching and teaching from The Bible some 30 years. There was a time I would not have kept one if given to me. Today, I wouldn't live without one at hand for I've witnessed God's use of the words in the book change my life and the lives of countless others. No, The Bible is not a golden calf that anyone worships any more than a good Catholic would say Mary is a worshiped idol. On the surface The Bible is a recording of the words of men no different than you and I, save one called Jesus Christ, who were chosen by God to record for all time His message of hope for a dying world, and His way of reconciliation and redemption. Beneath the surface The Bible is a mystery beyond human reasoning.
True, you can say anything is the Word of God, but it must meet certain criteria as Josh McDowell in his book Evidence Without A Verdict details before it is the Word of God. Just because I say the Campbell's Tomato Soup label is God's Word does not mean it is God's Word. "'How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'' When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing the LORD has not spoken."' Additionally, I would not want to put myself in the false prophet situation for "... the prophet who shall speak a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he shall speak in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die."
I know you do not accept The Bible as God's Word. You've made that clear in your multitude of posts claiming the Apostle Paul corrupted Jesus' teachings, God's portrayal in the OT does not suit your tastes and Satan can not be real because your dad said he wasn't, are but three of many reasons you've given.
I've been reading, studying, preaching and teaching from The Bible some 30 years. There was a time I would not have kept one if given to me. Today, I wouldn't live without one at hand for I've witnessed God's use of the words in the book change my life and the lives of countless others. No, The Bible is not a golden calf that anyone worships any more than a good Catholic would say Mary is a worshiped idol. On the surface The Bible is a recording of the words of men no different than you and I, save one called Jesus Christ, who were chosen by God to record for all time His message of hope for a dying world, and His way of reconciliation and redemption. Beneath the surface The Bible is a mystery beyond human reasoning.
I think God is a mystery and the Bible does not solve the mystery unless one wants to believe the Bible solves the mystery.
I believe the Bible is inspirational in many areas when the verses are carefully chosen for Sunday worship. And I suspect this is done in all churches of the world. Most are able to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to bible verses, in particular the OT.
If one needs to separate the wheat from the chaff then it follows the bible was written by men and it is therefore imperfect. And imperfection CANNOT be associated with God!
Ultimately, one needs to look for God inside and then pick a religion or bible that works for you. As a man with reason i would never give up my reasoning to justify something that makes no sense in the Bible.
And preaching from the Bible is wonderful and a great enhancer of the human condition. It also puts MAN closer to God. But, we must separate the wheat from the chaff at all times.
For those who hold the 'opinion' that the Bible is just 'an ancient fable penned by barbarians', how do you account for:
1). The fact that more than 60-percent of the Bible was originally written as accurately fulfilled future prophecy...… And that no other self-professed ‘holy book’ even attempts or claims the use of prophecy.
2). The Bible is represented by more consistently accurate ancient manuscripts than any other literary work known to mankind? (10,000 manuscripts vs 600 for Illiad & Odyssey)
3). That the Bible has supernaturally survived large scale repeated attempts by nations and societies to banish and destroy it (most recently the Nazi's); yet is still the most widely read and followed teaching known to mankind.
4). The documented and widely accepted life-changing power of Bible teachings and precepts have influenced billions over thousands of years and billions today.
5). Bible standards and laws have been adopted by every civilized nation throughout history
6). Archaeological finds inevitably and consistently support Bible truth and teachings, in spite of contrary worldly opinions of its detractors
7). The convergence of thought and principals are consistent throughout the Bible ... even though it was penned by more than 100 authors over a 1500-year period of time (no computers or high tech communications).
8). The Bible alone claims over 3000 times to be the definitive, inspired Word of God. This claim is neither made or supported by any other self-professed ‘holy book.’
9). The fact that the Bible is still a light and guide to the paths of billions today, as it has been over thousands of years; it remains the most widely accepted standard of truth today.
10). The Savior of mankind, Jesus Christ, was consistently revealed in OT scripture and fulfilled over 300 Messianic prophecies. Modern computers have calculated the odds against one man fulfilling 8-10 of the major prophecies to be about 30 x 10th power to 1.
11). The Bible's inspiration and principals have been upheld by Presidents, Scientists in all disciplines, Historians, Archaeologists and every other intellectual discipline accepted by the world
12). Even its most vitriolic detractors still tend to acknowledge and support its foundational principles and often the very Words and teachings of Jesus Christ.
Claims that "Bible supporters only rely on the 'circular' teachings of the Bible itself as evidence of its truth and inspiration" ... are little more than the desperate flailing of those in darkness, who are fighting against the light. Claims that only Christ and the parts of the Bible represented as His recorded Word … are true and accurate, but, that the rest of the Bible (from the same sources and writers) are untrue and inaccurate …. selectively use and renounce the same standard, and as such, invalidate themselves!
In 30-years as a Bible Teacher/Preacher, I've never found anything that contradicts the Truth of the Bible as God's inspired Word. Invariably, those who claim otherwise, tend to isolate passages and verses; pitting those against the entire body of work, as their sole evidence that the Bible is not God's inspired Word of Truth (... and the Words spoken by Jesus against which all men will ultimately be judged).
The Bible is from cover to cover the inspired, authoritative and inerrant Word of God. "Hammer away ye hostile hands; your hammers break, God's anvil stands.".
Psalm 2:4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.
Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy
with Exposition
Articles of Affirmation and Denial
Article I.
WE AFFIRM that the Holy Scriptures are to be received as the authoritative Word of God.
WE DENY that the Scriptures receive their authority from the Church, tradition, or any other human source.
Article II.
WE AFFIRM that the Scriptures are the supreme written norm by which God binds the conscience, and that the authority of the Church is subordinate to that of Scripture.
WE DENY that Church creeds, councils, or declarations have authority greater than or equal to the authority of the Bible.
Article III.
WE AFFIRM that the written Word in its entirety is revelation given by God.
WE DENY that the Bible is merely a witness to revelation, or only becomes revelation in encounter, or depends on the responses of men for its validity.
"Hammer away ye hostile hands; your hammers break, God's anvil stands."
Ahhh.... yes. Seeing the world as "hostile". A place where everyone is just waiting to hammer away at the Bible and it's believers. Interesting world view. First cousin to: If you're not with us, you're attacking us. SMH. (Because it leads to the belief many American Bible believers have that they're being persecuted. Nope. Just disagreed with. You can carry a Bible in public, read it and quote from it without fear of arrest.)
The Bible is... a book that could be used to spread peace, understanding and brotherhood. But seldom is. Especially if it's being quoted by it's most ardent believers.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 03-13-2014 at 11:50 AM..
I think God is a mystery and the Bible does not solve the mystery unless one wants to believe the Bible solves the mystery.
I believe the Bible is inspirational in many areas when the verses are carefully chosen for Sunday worship. And I suspect this is done in all churches of the world. Most are able to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to bible verses, in particular the OT.
If one needs to separate the wheat from the chaff then it follows the bible was written by men and it is therefore imperfect. And imperfection CANNOT be associated with God!
Ultimately, one needs to look for God inside and then pick a religion or bible that works for you. As a man with reason i would never give up my reasoning to justify something that makes no sense in the Bible.
And preaching from the Bible is wonderful and a great enhancer of the human condition. It also puts MAN closer to God. But, we must separate the wheat from the chaff at all times.
It is contradictory only to people who do not want to accept it. Then it contradicts what they believe.
That's a very broad brush you paint with. I accepted the bible as the inerrant, infallible Word of God for 40+ years. The idea of seeing it as anything other than that was not even on my radar until a few years ago when I was confronted by the things that eventually convinced me otherwise. I wanted to continue to accept it's infallibility with all my heart and was devastated, at first, when I no longer could.
I have read the testimony of many who had a similar experience to my own. They did not see the contradictions within it because they wanted to or because it contradicted what they believed, but rather because they were forced, by their passion for studying the bible and their own integrity, to acknowledge it's shortcomings.
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Very enlightening responses.
