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The point is not what Luther thought was suspect in the Scriptures but that he knew the best way to confront the pathetic state of one of the churches of his day (the Catholic church) was to stick with the Scriptures rather than being mired down by extra-biblical statements by his detractors.
The Catholic church say they go all the way back to Peter as their founder. The problem with this is that the apostle Paul founded the church at Rome because it was outside Israel and was of the nations.
Jesus even told the disciples not to go into a road of the nations but to stick in Israel and that they wouldn't finish all the towns in Israel before He returned.
Peter and Paul made an agreement in Galatians two that he (Peter) would be for the Circumcision (that's just the Jews) and Paul would be for the uncircumcision (that's the nations) and Paul is always called the apostle of the nations. Peter and James, in the book of acts said they would quit harassing those of the nations. So if you want to get back to the true church and you are of the nations, you need to get back to Paul's theology, not Peter's.
Prior to this agreement, some from James came to Galatia and tried to get the Galatians to mix law with grace which Paul was was wrong. And Peter went there and tried to Judaize them:
Gal 2:14 But when I perceived that they are not correct in their attitude toward the truth of the evangel, I said to Cephas in front of all, "If you, being inherently a Jew, are living as the nations, and not as the Jews, how are you compelling the nations to be judaizing?
Do you realize what judaizing means? Catholics should have Paul as their founder, not Peter.
And so Peter was caught in his hypocrisy and they agreed he (Peter) would only be for the Circumcision and Paul for the nations. You can't mix law with grace under truth given to Paul.
Dear Eusebius,
Actually the Circumcision was for the descendants of Abraham. This included Ismael and Abraham's servants and descendants of those servants (Gen 17:13) That would include all 12 tribes of Israel, of which the lost 10 tribes (Israel) are "scattered among the nations". (Joel 3:3) How do you have one everlasting Covenant (Gen 17:19) for Joseph (Israel), and a different Covenant for Judah (of the tribe of Israel)?
(Gen 17:9-15) God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 "And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner , who is not of your descendants. 13 "A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised ; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 "But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people ; he has broken My covenant." 15 Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name.
Joel 3:2, "I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations ; And they have divided up My land.
As for the self professed apostle and prophet Paul, how is it that church tradition says that he is the only one sent to the "make disciples of all the nations", when that is what Yeshua taught his apostles to do in Mt 28:19-20, and they were to teach the nations to observe "all" that I have commanded you. There was no divided message to be given.
Mt 28:19-20," "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always , even to the end of the age."
If Luther wanted to use the scriptures than why did he throw a lot of it out? That was the Church's problem with him, he wanted to rewrite the bible and change words. That was heretical but he went ahead and wanted to bury the Church so he was ex-communicated. Sad since his protest started so many other protests that still goes on today with so many different denominations. The true Church was fractured but with prayer we may be re-united into one again someday.
LOL. Another example of history being rewritten to hide from the truth.
In regards to your false claim about Luther removing books from the Bible;
Quote:
An obvious sign that someone has not read anything about Luther and the canon is the assertion, “Luther removed books from the Bible,” or “Luther removed books from the New Testament.” It is a simple historical fact that Luther’s translation of the Bible contained all of its books. Luther began translating the New Testament in 1521, and released a finished version in 1522. He published sections of the Old Testament as he finished them. He finished the entire Bible by 1534. During these years, various incomplete editions were released. Some Protestants might be surprised to learn that Luther also translated the Apocrypha. The editors of Luther’s Works explain, “In keeping with early Christian tradition, Luther also included the Apocrypha of the Old Testament. Luther and the canon 3
In response to your false claim this is why the RCC excommunicated Luther;
Pope Leo X at age 37
Quote:
demonstrated his appreciation of art by initiating a massive building project to beautify the Vatican. The pomp and extravagance of his court was an indirect cause of the Reformation because to acquire the enormous sums of money for renovation, he encouraged the sale of "Indulgences," which was a promise of relief from eternal penalties.
In Germany this practice aroused the ire of Martin Luther, a humble monk, who issued ninety- five arguments for church reform.
Luther wrote in his 95 Theses, his criticism of the Church - "why doesn't the Pope build the basilica of St Peter's out of his own money?" Martin Luther . Characters.Pope Leo X | PBS
Do you realize what judaizing means? Catholics should have Paul as their founder, not Peter.
Paul would be great but he did not walk with Jesus. Paul was not in the circle with the Lord. And more importantly Jesus favored Peter to be the first leader of his his church.
The apostles were men. So, your question becomes, "Why would you believe the words of men over the words of men?"
The RCC, as do most of us, consider those apostles to have written words inspired by God. So why WOULDN'T you believe those words over the words of modern-day men?
The RCC, as do most of us, consider those apostles to have written words inspired by God. So why WOULDN'T you believe those words over the words of modern-day men?
For the same reason you wouldn't believe me if I said my words were inspired by God.
Paul would be great but he did not walk with Jesus. Paul was not in the circle with the Lord. And more importantly Jesus favored Peter to be the first leader of his his church.
Actually He favored Mary Magdalene . . . but Peter, Paul and the chauvinist church fathers would have none of it.
Actually He favored Mary Magdalene . . . but Peter, Paul and the chauvinist church fathers would have none of it.
Mary Magdalene would have been fine too!
Whatever religion mandates is OK as long as it can be proven within the rules of the game. I men lived to be over the age of 900 before the flood, then Mary Magdalene as Pope is no big deal.
No, a woman would not make a good substitute. The Church body/we are called the bride of Christ so if a woman was the head/Pope or a priest than it would be like a gay marriage and we know what the bible says about gay marriages. Sorry that is how God set it up so not much men can do about that.
God chose the time and His son to come to earth for our salvation.
Dear Eusebius,
Actually the Circumcision was for the descendants of Abraham. This included Ismael and Abraham's servants and descendants of those servants (Gen 17:13) That would include all 12 tribes of Israel, of which the lost 10 tribes (Israel) are "scattered among the nations". (Joel 3:3) How do you have one everlasting Covenant (Gen 17:19) for Joseph (Israel), and a different Covenant for Judah (of the tribe of Israel)?
Christ inaugurated a new Covenant for Israel in His blood.
In the New Testament, when Paul would write about the Circumcision, he was including any Israelite living in Israel.
Quote:
(Gen 17:9-15) God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 "And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner , who is not of your descendants. 13 "A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised ; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 "But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people ; he has broken My covenant." 15 Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name.
Quote:
Joel 3:2, "I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations ; And they have divided up My land.
Quote:
As for the self professed apostle and prophet Paul,
Really? You haven't read much about Paul's apostleship and calling I take it? Peter and the others recognized Paul's apostleship. Do you really think he snookered all of them?
Quote:
how is it that church tradition says that he is the only one sent to the "make disciples of all the nations", when that is what Yeshua taught his apostles to do in Mt 28:19-20, and they were to teach the nations to observe "all" that I have commanded you. There was no divided message to be given.
Mt 28:19-20," "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always , even to the end of the age."
The "Go into all the world and make disciples of all nations will be taken up again. Israel was set aside and grace went to the nations. Paul was called to go to the nations and Peter, James and John and the other apostles were only to be for the circumcision. See Galatians 2.
The Circumcision believers have a terrestrial allotment in the land during the millennial reign of Christ and during the new eath. Paul and those of his evangel have a heavenly allotment during the same time.
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Do you realize what judaizing means? Catholics should have Paul as their founder, not Peter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Paul would be great but he did not walk with Jesus. Paul was not in the circle with the Lord. And more importantly Jesus favored Peter to be the first leader of his his church.
Of course he walked with the risen Jesus and talked with the risen Jesus and got revelations from the risen Jesus. It was God and Jesus who made him the apostle of the nations.
Peter was the leader of the Circumcision church, not the leader of the uncircumcision church of the nations. Paul was the apostle of the church of the nations.
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