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You are basically saying that I am leaning on my own understanding to NOT lean on my understanding? Nice.
You don't know me.
Again - you don't know me. You don't know Paul either.
It seems we share this view, read it as if you were telling it to yourself.
You don't seem to know yoursel nor the actual Paul. Believing that it is better to ignore all your doubts is still part of your human understanding. Ignoring doubts can be done by Hindus, Muslims, and atheists alike. Ignoring your doubts does not make you wise, seeking to change and criticize your believes often is what leads the wisdom that the Jewish author of proverbs meant to inspire. he basically asks to try it and to test it scientifically, as it's fruits will bare out. Proverbs is not asking you to ignore anything, it is asking the protagonist/reader "my son" to not have such hubris in their human believes, but instead to follow the Laws set before proverbs and to seek the wisdom available and see how they "will" bear fruit at a greater rate than chance.
It is impossible for a human individual to not rely on their human understanding for their believes. Proverbs isn't asking "the son" to be irrational, it is asking the son for humility, science, and logical thought (implying that they belong with Judaism, so that Jews become exalted for their loyalty [to their separatist religion] and wisdom among men).
"nothing you desire can compare with her!" not even Jesus, nor immortality, nor a hedonistic (rewarding) afterlife, nor tranquility of mind, nor Pauls assurences, none of your desires are as wondrous as is Obvious Wisdom, she was with the first laying the foundations. She is the true comforter, and she is not bound in one book. the first shall be last, and the last shall be first! True love.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-08-2014 at 01:39 AM..
What you are missing is that how my kids view the pictures will be based on their relationship with me - whether I am telling them the story or not.
If someone else tells a story that is out of character with what they know from our relationship - then yeah, they will ask questions.
That's what I am doing here. People are painting scenarios that are inconsistent with who God is based on my 20+ years of knowing Him, and what He has presented in the Bible through the various authors.
They say He didn't part the Red Sea. I say He did it - people wrote about it - plus God is fully capable to perform the deed. People wrote about a virgin birth, and a resurrection. Is God capable is doing that? Yes. If you don't believe that even though it was written about in the Bible - I will have a hard time believing you have a good relationship with God and His Son.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is inspired by God...
Do you believe that or did men write the Bible independent of God? God says He inspired the content. Do you believe Him?
Who wrote Timothy? Was Timothy "scripture" too or just a letter to Timothy? Where any of Pauls letters more than just his own personal correspondences between the Churches he founded and was periodically collecting money from? What does Paul mean by "scripture" ? Surely not the Bible put together much after his death, surely not only four of the many gospel stories circulation around, surely not his own personal letters to the churches he had invested in, in hopes of tithes and offerings.
I am asking you. She can answer me on her own. Who or what defines who God is if the Bible is inaccurate?
The concept we have of that which believe is God whether it is right or wrong. And how we see God to be, that is how God will be to us........... It is unavoidable.
Who wrote Timothy? Was Timothy "scripture" too or just a letter to Timothy? Where any of Pauls letters more than just his own personal correspondences between the Churches he founded and was periodically collecting money from? What does Paul mean by "scripture" ? Surely not the Bible put together much after his death, surely not only four of the many gospel stories circulation around, surely not his own personal letters to the churches he had invested in, in hopes of tithes and offerings.
your leading the conversation into a question of historical authenticity and discussing with a believer who is trying to explain to you, a translation which has been nurtured over many years concerning a belief in God.
Would you mind staying on nature of topic and offered understandings. A little respect and admiration for the perseverence, please.
You ignored my question yet you ask me one. Jesus defines who God is. And he has said (and shown) that God IS agape love, period. Anything that is not consistent with agape love can NOT be of God. Now answer the question in bold.
the quote in bold, I follow Christ's instructions to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when I don't. What is YOUR assurance based on???
assurance as·sur·ance (ə-sho͝or′əns) n.1. The act of assuring. 2. A statement or indication that inspires confidence; a guarantee or pledge: gave her assurance that the plan would succeed. 3. Freedom from doubt; certainty: set sail in the assurance of favorable winds. See Synonyms at certainty.
throughout hundreds of years Christians from all walks of life have addressed assuring alongside close attention to scripture with,
hymms, reading, reflecting , speaking with spititual director, service gatherings , charity events and esp with formal prayer which speaks on behalf of the soul to God. ( nuturing the devotion.
assurance with regards to a belief in God has to do with the interior life and has little to do with proving things to other people.
First and foremost the Bible is a gift from God to His loved creation man. It is God's wisdom, knowledge and love given to a sinful race who will often choose disobedience over Godliness. God AUTHORED the Bible and then used men to record His revelation.
I believe in my heart that the original manuscripts written down by the writers though the centuries WERE PERFECT IN ACCURACY AND DETAIL. These were holy, Godly men devoted to the service of the creator. Yes, during translations, I would say it's possible through omission, mistranslation and language barriers that the final product you see has a few mistakes. Scripture therefore, is a not a testimony of God's skill as a writer or logician. These are man's mistakes and not God's. It does not dilute or change the Christian doctrine or Godly wisdom of the book. Those who reject the Bible do so out of fear of change in their lives and, disobedience and lack of so are able to stay unaccountable to God for their sins and eternal fate.
It was authored by God to be taken literally WHENEVER POSSIBLE. It is not a book that is misleading- The Bible does not say one thing but actually mean another. Just because science can't explain an event doesn't mean it didn't happen. Have faith that God accomplished it. Generally, we are to take it at face value. The few verses that have a double meaning are made clear by the verses themselves or by parallel passages. Included are parables (which reveal spiritual truths by physical examples), allegories, history (tho not always in chronological order), prophecy (some fulfilled; some not yet), poetry, manners and customs of ancient peoples, mysteries and riddles (some explained, some not), literature, biographies, hymns, letters and contains directions and life guidelines, which feed man spiritually) from the creator.
God gave it to us to study, learn from and obey, so that we will have physical and spiritual success, both in the here and the hereafter. It is a book for all people of all ages.
It is a book of inspired divine revelation covering the origin and destiny of all things. It is a source of present help for body, mind and spirit. It was written for man's overall good yet glorifies God simultaneously. It reveals God's plan for man; will be opened at the judgment and will last forever. It points out man's responsibility, rewards the least of us who obey and condemns those who foolishly reject God's mercy and grace. It should rule our hearts and guide our feet down the paths of life.
Both believer's and non-believers can and will debate this until the end. If a person would take one thing from this reply, I would tell them that there have never been any discrepancies found in the salvation message given in scripture. If you like, throw out the rest but keep the forgiveness and eternal life message given in the Holy Bible to heart- then act on it as God urges you to. The Bible is the power of God unto eternal salvation.
Amen! You are a reliable witness in my eyes. I looked into the reliability of some posters, two of them confess they are not Christians at all, but posting in CD for years UMMMMM! There is a whole group of universal salvation persons, which reject the reliability of the bible for good reasons, no one confesses to be Christian. OK they may see themselves as such, but with a Religion of Worldview. That means that they have the spirit of this world, which is envy to God. Some were in the past "fundamentalist" believing in the reliability of the bible, but came to another view, which they feel to except. I would say they fell away from true faith and they are deceived, but this they will not except. It will make them even more fanatic to proof they are right and we are wrong. They have this discussions for years and use them to proof their worldview, no one can convince them otherwise. Many true believers gave up, it is just lost time.
Good discernment..... and right on !
One should speak once maybe twice when it comes to the Bible and its reliability and if not received, rejected, shake the dust off your feet as one will be considered casting your pearls before swine. Our Lord did did not play games as played in this forum. If people were not willing to hear and listen when He spoke and gave truth, He moved on to where the hearts were ripened and ready to harvest, rather then repeating Himself over and over to the same people. Therefore we are to follow His example, amen !
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 04-08-2014 at 07:23 AM..
The concept we have of that which believe is God whether it is right or wrong. And how we see God to be, that is how God will be to us........... It is unavoidable.
Basically, you are your own God. You control what He is like. You control how He treats you. You accept whatever criteria you want as believable. You say whatever God can do and what He can't do.
I'm sure that gives you the warm fuzzies inside - especially since you claim the spirit in your head to be Jesus Christ - but whatever spirit that is inside of your head, that is telling you it is Jesus Christ, is lying to you.
I am not saying this contentiously. I am saying this with the hope that it stays in back of your mind, with the hope that you, Pleroo, Mystic, and whomever else, Heartsong... realize who the real Jesus Christ is - not someone of you own imagination, but an actual person who lived on earth, that can make you part of the family of the one true living God.
Why on earth do you think that loving God means believing implausible and improbable things??? Loving God means doing what Jesus told His disciples to do to know God . . . Love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't.
Loving God means loving God. He defines Himself through the relationships he had with people in the Bible.
The reason we can have eternal life with Him both now and after this life, is because we believe God can do things that are implausible and improbable from our perspective. And we believe that because there is account written by people who witnessed the events.
I don't understand how you can quote from a book that you really believe maybe 10%-20% of its content.
I don't understand how you can quote verses from Jesus Christ on how to love God, and reject the fact that He was resurrected from the dead. How can you accept one thing and not the other from the same person?
The resurrection is an implausible and improbable thing,... yet without it there is no Christianity. I will let Paul's statement wrap this up.
1 Corinthians 15:12-19 - Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
Loving God means loving God. He defines Himself through the relationships he had with people in the Bible.
The reason we can have eternal life with Him both now and after this life, is because we believe God can do things that are implausible and improbable from our perspective. And we believe that because there is account written by people who witnessed the events.
I don't understand how you can quote from a book that you really believe maybe 10%-20% of its content.
I don't understand how you can quote verses from Jesus Christ on how to love God, and reject the fact that He was resurrected from the dead. How can you accept one thing and not the other from the same person?
The resurrection is an implausible and improbable thing,... yet without it there is no Christianity. I will let Paul's statement wrap this up.
1 Corinthians 15:12-19 - Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
Amen........
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