What do Mormons really believe? Let's discuss Mormonism!!! (Lutherans, dinosaur, presbyterian)
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So: the God who, according to Prophet Joseph, led him to establish the LDS church, began by urging Prophet Joseph to distance himself from "Christians".
Because of this I find it strange that modern LDS people want to do the opposite of their founding prophet and the God who appeared to him.
You are pretty close, Rick, but God did not tell Joseph to distance himself from Christians. God told Joseph not to join any of the denominations of that time. In other words, don't join the Methodist, Baptist, Catholics, etc. No mention of Christians or Christianity was made. ->IF<- one believes in Joseph's vision, then the implication was the various denominations had fallen away from the pure form of Christianity as established by Christ during His mortal Ministry, and Joseph was to re-establish Christianity as Christ had originally intended.
Let me restate. God never told Joseph to distance himself from Christians or that he was to establish a non-Christian Church.
NOTE: I have a couple of classes to teach, so I will be gone until this evening; therefore, don't think I am avoiding answering any questions.
Big, you bring up something very interesting, so I have to ask this question:
Why would I or any member of the LDS faith be anything less than "up and up" regarding our religion? Are you under the impression we are trying to hide something? If so, do you know how you came about this belief or feeling?
I understand people who just hate us or can't stand our doctrine. I can actually deal with them quite easily, but I am concerned about the general public, who have somehow formed the belief we are keeping some dark secret.
Hi Sarge,
I don't hate the LDS, but the more said here, the more confused I get.
You seem to claim that there are no secrets (or is it just no "dark" secrets) surrounding your faith.
But there ARE secrets, right?
Aren't there things that go on in the temple that non-members are not allowed to see or to even know about?
I have a trustworthy source (an active, "good" Mormon) who has told me of the existence of such things - his reason for the secrecy is that non-believers won't understand and that the secrets are kept to shield the religion from further discrimination.
Those are valid reasons, but until the secrets are exposed, the church will always be seen as something untrustworthy by outsiders.
It's one reason why Romney will be crucified in the press pretty soon.
He will eventually be pressed for the details about what goes on in the temple and with the prophet, and he will refuse to answer.
So what can you tell us about these "secret" temple rituals?
The Mormon church - as the mormon church - as I understand traces its history to founder, Prophet Joseph Smith, who reports of a vision he had of God.
He states that his purpose was to ask this God which of the (Christian) churches was right and which he should join.
He was told that he should join none of them; they were all wrong, their members were all corrupt; their creeds (which Christians today still affirm) were all corrupt.
So: the God who, according to Prophet Joseph, led him to establish the LDS church, began by urging Prophet Joseph to distance himself from "Christians".
Because of this I find it strange that modern LDS people want to do the opposite of their founding prophet and the God who appeared to him.
Joseph Smith was not told to distance himself from the "Christians." He was told not join himself with any of the existing Churches.
It seems to me that some Evangelical denominations have co-opted the term "Christian" for themselves and deny that title to anyone who differs from them, even if they accept Christ as their savior.
The issue is not that we want to be considered the same as other denominations. There are differences, and we do not deny them. The problem is a few misrepresent, distort, and hold the Church to an impossible standard. Their actions remind me of the persecution of early Christians after Christ. Then I am reminded of the following scripture, when Gamaliel, a Pharisee, urges moderation to those who are persecuting the early Christians:
Acts 5:38-39
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God
Why doesn't this vocal minority take this council to heart? If they have the Truth, Mormonism will come to naught. If Mormons have the Truth, those fighting against the LDS Church will be found fighting against God.
I'm glad the tone of the thread has turned. Quite frankly, the vocal few over the last few days have given me the temptation to consider Evangelical Christians as close-minded and prejudiced. I'm glad that's not the case.
Hi Sarge,
I don't hate the LDS, but the more said here, the more confused I get.
You seem to claim that there are no secrets (or is it just no "dark" secrets) surrounding your faith.
But there ARE secrets, right?
Aren't there things that go on in the temple that non-members are not allowed to see or to even know about?
I have a trustworthy source (an active, "good" Mormon) who has told me of the existence of such things - his reason for the secrecy is that non-believers won't understand and that the secrets are kept to shield the religion from further discrimination.
Those are valid reasons, but until the secrets are exposed, the church will always be seen as something untrustworthy by outsiders.
It's one reason why Romney will be crucified in the press pretty soon.
He will eventually be pressed for the details about what goes on in the temple and with the prophet, and he will refuse to answer.
So what can you tell us about these "secret" temple rituals?
What do you mean "and with the prophet"?
The temple and temple rituals are not secret persay but are very sacred to us. Yes the outside world would still say that is secret and in the sense we do not share it with the outside world I suppose it is. We believe that the only way to fully understand the rituals of the temple is if one truly accepts and believes what we consider to be the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If one does not then they would just find the rituals of the temple silly and mock something that is sacred to us. A scripture comes to mind:
Matt. 7: 6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
What do you mean "and with the prophet"?
The temple and temple rituals are not secret persay but are very sacred to us. Yes the outside world would still say that is secret and in the sense we do not share it with the outside world I suppose it is. We believe that the only way to fully understand the rituals of the temple is if one truly accepts and believes what we consider to be the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If one does not then they would just find the rituals of the temple silly and mock something that is sacred to us. A scripture comes to mind:
Matt. 7: 6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Wow - did you just call me a dog and a swine?
Anyway, I understand why you have your secrets (yes, they count as secrets if they are not willingly shared with all) and I don't necessarily have a problem with that, myself.
I was just saying that the secrets are one big reason why the faith will be seen as something suspicious to the unindoctrinated.
As to the "and with the prophet" part of my post - I didn't have anything specific in mind. Just that Mitt Romney will be pressed harder and harder about who the prophet is, what he believes, why people feel that he is the true prohet, what role he plays in Romney's life, etc.
For me, what someone says they believe is of little import or value...it does not convince. Perhaps we should be asking: where is the archeological evidence to back up the claims of the origins of Mormonism?
For me, what someone says they believe is of little import or value...it does not convince. Perhaps we should be asking: where is the archeological evidence to back up the claims of the origins of Mormonism?
Bud
And they'll tell you they have it (I know - I've asked).
And they will present it.
And you won't believe in their evidence.
Same as with all archaological evidence of religious claims.
Mormons do believe in more than one god. what is wrong with it they don't worship more than one god just believe in more then one. if people truly studied the bible like they say they do then they would see these things all over in it. Jesus and others teach there you cannot be a son without a father christ was a son so does it just end there if it does then the whole bible and all religion is a load of crap. it can and is taught in the bible and other books that god himself is a son and has a father and his father has a father otherwise they would not exist.
Big, you bring up something very interesting, so I have to ask this question:
Why would I or any member of the LDS faith be anything less than "up and up" regarding our religion? Are you under the impression we are trying to hide something? If so, do you know how you came about this belief or feeling?
I understand people who just hate us or can't stand our doctrine. I can actually deal with them quite easily, but I am concerned about the general public, who have somehow formed the belief we are keeping some dark secret.
Serg,
Interesting question. When I wrote that post I wasn't trying to impress upon anyone (at least consciencly.. i'm a bad speller) that LDS had something to hide. I was simply stating that you seem to know what you are talking about and its difficult to discern as much on an anonymous message board.
However, your question is still interesting and upon reflection maybe the term "up and up" was a freudian slip. It seems in general that there is (at least in my mind.. and I'm not saying there is.. just my opinion here) a bit of secrecy surrounding the mormon church. I've always been under the impression that non-mormons couldn't go into certain buildings etc. Again.. hearsay. I've spoken to people who were once mormon but won't talk about certain things as if bound to a code of silence. I don't push the subject. Again.. kinda secretive.
Also.. (again my opinion only) there is a perception that things change to suit new evidence (i.e. the intro to the mormon book).
All these things taken in aggregate (my opinion) might lead one (me) to think there could be things to hide..
Like I said earlier. I'm hoping to learn more (not because I'm interested in joining) but becasue I think its an interesting subject.
Like I said.. this is only me talking.. if others want to chime in (in a civil manner) then they are free to. I don't think there is a big dark secret but for right now I do think there are secretive things. I'm open to be influenced in another direction though..
it can and is taught in the bible and other books that god himself is a son and has a father and his father has a father otherwise they would not exist.
What scripture do you have to back this up? I can think of none that say that God is a son and has a father. I am genuinely interested in your answer. Thank you.
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