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Maybe, but people are weak. I know that I'm sometimes very sincere, but I backslide because I'm still working on this thing called life.
I wasn't meaning to imply that a person would become instantly perfect. I meant that their overall behaviors and attitudes would change. Their goals will be different. Instead of living to only please themselves, they have a different purpose. Occassionally they will take their eyes off of that goal, and do things that are considered "sinful". That is when repentance comes in, and then we move on. I don't think we ever reach "perfection", but it is a constant process that we work on through the course of our lives.
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I'm jumping into this conversation without having read the whole thread, so please forgive me (and redirect me) if what I ask has already been covered. Zimbabwe mentioned the LDS doctrine of multiple kingdoms of glory. I think I pretty much understand this from other things I've read and seen explained in previous discussions. However, I am wondering if Mormons also believe in multiple levels of punishment/hell. What is the LDS teaching on this subject?
I'm jumping into this conversation without having read the whole thread, so please forgive me (and redirect me) if what I ask has already been covered. Zimbabwe mentioned the LDS doctrine of multiple kingdoms of glory. I think I pretty much understand this from other things I've read and seen explained in previous discussions. However, I am wondering if Mormons also believe in multiple levels of punishment/hell. What is the LDS teaching on this subject?
Well, Solzhenitsyn described the Gulags of the former Soviet Union as The First Circle of Hell, but the LDS Church has not adopted his writings as doctrine.
Perhaps you will find this helpful.
GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES
Hell
See also Damnation; Death, Spiritual; Devil; Sons of Perdition
Latter-day revelation speaks of hell in at least two senses. First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality. In this sense, hell has an end. The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in hell throughout the Millennium. After these thousand years of torment, they will be resurrected to a telestial glory (D&C 76: 81-86; 88: 100-101).
Second, it is the permanent location of those who are not redeemed by the atonement of Jesus Christ. In this sense, hell is permanent. It is for those who are found “filthy still” (D&C 88: 35, 102). This is the place where Satan, his angels, and the sons of perdition—those who have denied the Son after the Father has revealed him—will dwell eternally (D&C 76: 43-46).
The scriptures sometimes refer to hell as outer darkness.
David’s soul shall not be left in hell, Ps. 16: 10 (Ps. 86: 13). Go into hell, into that fire that never shall be quenched, Mark 9: 43 (Mosiah 2: 38). The rich man in hell lifts up his eyes, being in torment, Luke 16: 22-23 (D&C 104: 18). Death and hell delivered up the dead, Rev. 20: 13. There is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell, 1 Ne. 15: 35. The will of the flesh giveth the spirit of the devil power to bring us down to hell, 2 Ne. 2: 29. Christ prepared the way for our deliverance from death and hell, 2 Ne. 9: 10-12. Those who remain filthy go into everlasting torment, 2 Ne. 9: 16. The devil cheateth their souls and leadeth them away carefully down to hell, 2 Ne. 28: 21. Jesus hath redeemed my soul from hell, 2 Ne. 33: 6. Loose yourselves from the pains of hell, Jacob 3: 11. To be taken captive by the devil and led by his will to destruction are the chains of hell, Alma 12: 11. The wicked are cast into outer darkness until the time of their resurrection, Alma 40: 13-14. The filthy would be more miserable to dwell with God than to dwell in hell, Morm. 9: 4. The punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, D&C 19: 10-12. Hell is a place prepared for the devil and his angels, D&C 29: 37-38. Those who acknowledge God are delivered from death and the chains of hell, D&C 138: 23.
There are no stations or gradations of Hell that I know of, but it makes sense that the more wicked an individual is the greater suffering in Hell he or she experiences.
We gain some insight into the sufferings of Hell from a scripture in the 19th section of the Doctrine and Covenants:
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; 18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink— 19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men. 20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.
Going back to the steps of repentence, I would submit that ignoring any of those steps is problematic and calls into question whether a person really has repented. One step that I thought would have generated some comment but did not was the step of confession. Of course we should confess our sins to our Father in Heaven in prayer, but there are many who chaff under the notion that we should confess our sins to ecclesiastical leaders. I have heard a lot of people criticize the Catholics for this practice. We do not practice confession the same way as the Catholics, but confession is a true principle and is neccessary to obtain complete forgiveness for major sins. In the LDS Church the pastor of the congregation is called a "Bishop". The Bishop is also a "common judge in Israel" and where there is serious sin that would jeopardize one's membership in the church he may be required to sit in judgement of that person in behalf of the Church. I want to stress that the Bishop's role is to bring that individual, through repentence, back unto Christ, protect the innocent in the Church, and to protect the good name of the Church. The Church has no right to punish any person except to withdraw fellowship:
10 We believe that all religious societies have a right to deal with their members for disorderly conduct, according to the rules and regulations of such societies; provided that such dealings be for fellowship and good standing; but we do not believe that any religious society has authority to try men on the right of property or life, to take from them this world’s goods, or to put them in jeopardy of either life or limb, or to inflict any physical punishment upon them. They can only excommunicate them from their society, and withdraw from them their fellowship. (Doctrine and Covenants 134:10)
Continuing on with the 4th article of faith, we believe that baptism by immersion for the remission of sins is an essential ordinance for salvation and that its importance was underscored by Jesus Himself submitting to the ordinance in order to fulfill all rightousness. The Lord's last commandment to His Apostles was to "Go ye therfore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I command you, and lo I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." (Matt 28:19-20, emphasis added)
At the day of Pentacost, baptism also was required of the new converts: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:37-38, emphasis added)
He that believeth andisbaptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16. emphasis added)
From the Book of Mormon: Yea, I say unto you come and fear not, and lay aside every sin, which easily doth beset you, which doth bind you down to destruction, yea, come and go forth, and show unto your God that ye are willing to repent of your sins and enter into a covenant with him to keep his commandments, and witness it unto him this day by going into the waters of baptism. (Alma 7:15, emphasis added)
There are many Chirstian churches today which emphasize Baptism, but I think most do not. Also many that perform baptism don't neccesarily perform baptism by immersion, which is the pattern laid down by our Lord. It was required of Paul and Cornelius and others in the Bible. It is an outward act that signifies our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, our repentence and our willingess to take upon us the name of Christ and to keep His commandments. Furthermore, baptism of little children is not practiced in the LDS church, since little children cannot sin and the atonement of Christ saves children who die before the age of accountability. Thus we are baptized unto repentence by immersion for the remission of sins.
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Thank you SergeantL and Zimbabwe for answering my question. Your answers give clarification to a real life situation where I was trying to decide if something I had read was based on LDS theology. Apparently it wasn't, but I'm still scratching my head (regarding what I read, not what you've said). Thanks again!
Thank you SergeantL and Zimbabwe for answering my question. Your answers give clarification to a real life situation where I was trying to decide if something I had read was based on LDS theology. Apparently it wasn't, but I'm still scratching my head (regarding what I read, not what you've said). Thanks again!
One truly bizarre thing in my experience: Every Christian minister, pastor, priest, etc. -- all of them seem to be consistent about one thing with regards to Mormonism. They get most of them get their facts about Mormonism completely wrong.
There are few religions that can compare to the Mormons in one category -- there are entire organizations dedicated to nothing but the defamation and/or destruction of the Mormon religion. There are a lot of them. They lie. They make up facts. They make up histories. The rewrite their made up histories to keep them "relevant." They make up statements by Mormon leaders, both past and present. They distort. They make things that Mormonism believes in sound like insanity. They've repeatedly invented "facts" that had absolutely no basis whatsoever. For instance, at one point, one of these people claimed that Gordan B. Hinckley had homosexuality in his past. 100% false and 100% made up. They will do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to damage the Mormon religion. These organizations are there without fail, twice a year at the LDS General Conference, protesting the Mormon Church. (Salt Lake Police have told them they cannot bring megaphones anymore.)
If these people were focussed on Christianity, an example of what they might claim Christians believe would be: Adam and Eve landed in a spaceship on Earth. Together with their allies, they wiped out the dinosaurs and cavemen and established an empire they called Eden.
My point is, there is a LOT of literature that claims to tell the truth about Mormonism. Most of it is so completely false that it mindboggling. On the topic of Mormonism, there is a lot of false propaganda, so you can't trust much of what you read about them. If you want to know what they REALLY believe, you have to ask one of them.
My point is, there is a LOT of literature that claims to tell the truth about Mormonism. Most of it is so completely false that it mindboggling. On the topic of Mormonism, there is a lot of false propaganda, so you can't trust much of what you read about them. If you want to know what they REALLY believe, you have to ask one of them.
I 100% agree with you...that is why I am enjoying this thread (now).
The final section of the fourth article of faith concerns the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead but is a personage of spirit. He is in complete harmony with God the Father and Jesus Christ and serves a vital role in communicating the will of God unto men. He goes by many different names including the Spirit, The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, and the Comforter, among others. Although the Holy Ghost can only be in one place at a time, because he is a spirit and by some means which is not well understood, His influence can be felt over great distances. As a young missionary I used to use the Sun as an analogy to illustrate the effect of the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost testifies of the reality of God and His Son Jesus Christ. Remember when the Lord asked Peter "whom do ye say that I am?" Peter boldy confessed that He was Christ the Son of the living God. The Lord said that flesh and blood had not revealed that to Peter, but His Father in Heaven. How did that conviction come to the heart of Peter? Through the manifestations of the Holy Ghost. This is how we come to have a strong conviction of the truth. This testimony which comes to the heart of man is more powerful than angels and mighty miracles in convinvcing men of the truth. There were many who witnessed the miracles of Jesus but did not believe because their hearts were hardened and they did not allow the Holy Ghost to testify to their hearts.
The LDS faith has been criticized and lampooned in this forum for relying upon an "inner feeling" to know the truth. This is an unjust criticism. Everyone with a deep conviction of the truthfullness of the Bible has obtained that conviction to one degree or another through the manifestations of the Lord's Spirit. Remember the two disciples on the road to Emmaus after the crucifiction of the Lord? The Lord appeared to them as a fellow traveller and talked to them as they walked on the road. He opened the scriptures to the ears of their understanding. When they finally recognized Him and he vanished from their presence what did they say to themselves?
"And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" (Luke 24: 32) Some may say that this was the spirit of the Lord Himself but I think it was the Holy Ghost who bears testimony of the Lord. It is the same feeling we all can have to know the truth. Logic alone cannot give us a stong enough witness of the truth. We need the testimony that only the Holy Ghost can give us.
The Holy Ghost is a teacher and a comforter. The Lord told His Apostles that "the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
The Church teaches that all men are born with the "light of Christ" which is commonly known as our conscience. The Holy Ghost or the spirit of the Lord is an even greater manifestation of light and truth and can be our constant companion if we recieve it by living worthy and by the laying on of hands--which I will explain later.
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