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I would like to keep the thread going along the lines of the articles of faith since they are such a good introduction into LDS theology. We were on the last part of the fourth article of faith, which says "and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost". I am not at home so I don't have access to my scriptures, etc. Would it be breach of protocol to borrow other peoples' words regarding the gift of the Holy Ghost?
From the Church's own website:
Jesus taught that baptism by water must be followed by baptism of the Spirit or it is incomplete. Only when you receive baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost can you receive a remission of your sins and become completely spiritually reborn. You then begin a new spiritual life as a disciple of Christ. The gift of the Holy Ghost is given by someone who has priesthood authority from God. It is conferred after baptism in an ordinance called confirmation, where one or more authorized priesthood holders lay their hands on your head, confirm you a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and bless you to receive the Holy Ghost.
The gift of the Holy Ghost is one of Heavenly Father’s most precious gifts. The Holy Ghost can have a sanctifying, cleansing effect upon you and will provide peace of conscience and assurance that your sins have been forgiven when you truly repent. Through the power of the Holy Ghost you can feel God’s love and direction for you.
The fourth article of faith generated less comment than I anticipated. Shall we go on to the 5th article of faith? I think it will be of some interest.
I would like to keep the thread going along the lines of the articles of faith since they are such a good introduction into LDS theology. We were on the last part of the fourth article of faith, which says "and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost". I am not at home so I don't have access to my scriptures, etc. Would it be breach of protocol to borrow other peoples' words regarding the gift of the Holy Ghost?
From the Church's own website:
Jesus taught that baptism by water must be followed by baptism of the Spirit or it is incomplete. Only when you receive baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost can you receive a remission of your sins and become completely spiritually reborn. You then begin a new spiritual life as a disciple of Christ. The gift of the Holy Ghost is given by someone who has priesthood authority from God. It is conferred after baptism in an ordinance called confirmation, where one or more authorized priesthood holders lay their hands on your head, confirm you a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and bless you to receive the Holy Ghost.
The gift of the Holy Ghost is one of Heavenly Father’s most precious gifts. The Holy Ghost can have a sanctifying, cleansing effect upon you and will provide peace of conscience and assurance that your sins have been forgiven when you truly repent. Through the power of the Holy Ghost you can feel God’s love and direction for you.
The fourth article of faith generated less comment than I anticipated. Shall we go on to the 5th article of faith? I think it will be of some interest.
This is a bit different from Protestants as well. However, there are a wide range of different theologies regarding the Holy Ghost among Protestants, so I will refrain from going into detail.
Welcome to the forum, dantansk. We are in the middle of a great conversation where our LDS friends are explaining the meaning behind their doctrine. We are then outlining the Protestant views of those teachings. You are welcome to join in the conversation. If you have read through the entirety of this thread, I'm sure you noticed that there has been a ton of "Mormon Bashing". It has finally calmed down enough so that we can have a rational conversation.
And please, you know me, I'm not trying to argue or flame.
But it's ironic to me that Mormons would accept and erect a statue to a seagull as representation of a miracle of God that helped save the starving, yet they are opposed to images of the cross which is the ultimate representation of salvation.
Do you see that irony?
i wore a cross to church when i was on my mission in argentina. we had a family at church with us that week, and were trying to show thm what we believe in and what our meetings are like. one of the girls had a crucifix around her neck (south america, 80% catholic. go figure), and one of the more ignorant church members came up to her and tucked the cross into her collar and told her that it was disrespectful to wear it.
needless to say, i was livid. i borrowed her crucifix and wore it the rest of the meeting.
i will admit that my anger made my intentions less than perfect at the time. but there is nothing wrong with wearing a cross in and of itself. we just choose not to, in order to remind us to focus on Christ Himself, not the images that we perceive (that does not imply that crucifix-wearers focus on images, just that it can happen). it is the same reason we -usually- don't have portraits of prophets and saints and stuff in the chapel.
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
We have talked about faith, repentence, baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, but we have not discussed the means of obtaining these ordinances.
The authority to act in the name of God is called the priesthood. This priesthood authority must be conferred upon us in a manner that is consistent with the will of God. Jesus said to His disciples "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain..." (John 15:16, emphasis added)
Furthermore, the apostle Paul wrote to the Hebrews, speaking of the ministry, "No man taketh this honour unto himself but he that is called of God as was Aaron" (Heb 5:4)
How was Aaron called? Look at Chapter 28 in Exodus. The Lord tells Moses to call his brother Aaron and his sons to the ministry of the priesthood and set them apart through consecration. This is what it means to be called by the spirit of prophecy by those that are in authority.
We believe that the keys of the priesthood, which are absolutely neccessary to conduct the affairs of the church and and to administer the saving ordinances, were lost with the death of the Apostles. There are many others who have come to this same conclusion. A group of English christians in the 1600's rebelled against the Church of England, believing that the priesthood authority was not to be found on the earth. This group called themselves "Seekers" because they were seeking a renewal of this priesthood authority from God but were short lived because they couldn't minister to their own spiritual needs.
Roger Williams in America came to the same conclusion saying "that there was no regularly-constituted Church on earth, nor any person authorized to administer any Church ordinance; nor could there be, until new apostles were sent by the great Head of the Church, for whose coming he was seeking” (see William Cullen Bryant, ed., Picturesque America; or, the Land We Live In, 2 vols. [1872–74], 1:502).
Then how is it that we can administer in the ordinances of salvation today? That is the subject of my next post.
Welcome to the forum, dantansk. We are in the middle of a great conversation where our LDS friends are explaining the meaning behind their doctrine. We are then outlining the Protestant views of those teachings. You are welcome to join in the conversation. If you have read through the entirety of this thread, I'm sure you noticed that there has been a ton of "Mormon Bashing". It has finally calmed down enough so that we can have a rational conversation.
I hope you enjoy the forum!
and if you haven't read the thread, we would welcome you to do so, because a lot of the concerns that you stated, and are probably wanting to state, have already been covered.
that said, if you still have questions, ask away. we are just trying to accomplish the conversation in a respectful, open-minded way. thank you for your considation. aaron out.
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