What do Mormons really believe? Let's discuss Mormonism!!! (vs, temple, generation)

[zimbabwe]

Robert:

You sound angry. If you were angry when you interviewed, it probably came off in the interview. If you unconsiously had a chip on your shoulder in the interview, it was probably the reason why you were not hired. On the other hand, if you were not angry at the time of the interviews, then it is probable that you are angry at Mormons now because you did not get the job. Whatever the cause of your anger, you should learn to forgive and forget--for your sake. Mormons are not as bad as you seem to think--and they are probably not as good as others seem to think. We have problems like everyone else, but your anger and hatred towards us is not healthy for you. (Hopefully I am wrong about the degree of your anger).

You perceive that Mormons hold singles in low esteem, but you are wrong. Twin has added fuel to the fire, for which I am disappointed. All God's children are alike unto Him and He is no repecter of persons, but those that are righteous are favored of God. There are many who through no fault of their own can not or will not have the chance to be married in this life. The Lord will make loving and just compensation for His beloved children in this situation and they will enjoy all the blessing prepared for the faithful. If you are single the Lord loves you just as much as someone who is married. Our hearts go out to all who seek marriage but have not been blessed with it. Our leaders try to minister to them all the time. Please Robert forgive and forget--let it go.

[zimbabwe]

In fact, many are reluctant to acknowledge that the LDS goal of eternal existence is godhood.

This is not true but we do not discuss it in a flippant manner or with the same language used by our critics.

Here is a quote of apostle Boyd Packer that was shown to me..

Does you friend know that you are using all these quotes against the church? If not you may want to be up front with him or her.

"The ultimate purpose of all we teach is to unite parents and children in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, that they are happy at home, sealed in an eternal marriage, linked to their generations, and assured of exaltation in the presence of our Heavenly Father." March 2002 Ensign

I am not going to check your quote. The quote sounds correct and I frankly don't know why you would have any objection.

There are two aspects to an eternal family: (1) the earthly family unit will remain a family unit for all eternity; (2) the family will increase through the procreation of spirit children for all eternity. Only those who attain godhood will be able to have eternal families.

This is correct.

Exaltation is the highest level of the celestial kingdom, godhood. And to get to the highest level of the celestial kingdom means only gods have eternal families.

This is correct as far as I understand.

My daughter's best friend (an LDS senior HS) feels pressured to have a LDS boy friend.... though I haven't said anything to her, I would like to ask her why does she feel pressured to have a boy friend?

Your daughter's best friend is probably NOT pressured to have an LDS boyfriend. To the contrary, our teenage youth are taught NOT to have steady boyfriends or girlfriends. (see the For the Strength of Youth) This young lady's parents probably are encouraging her to DATE LDS boys, rather.

I understand about Mormon women, is that the wife is called from the grave by the husband. Whether or not this maybe what's driving this maybe she thinks ( or those you know) that there will be nobody to call her out of the grave, or won't be assured of exaltation

I have not heard of this.

[zimbabwe]

Hiram:

I would be happy to discuss what Mormons really believe with you if you would not make multiple, tandem, long complex posts that raise multple issues. My brain cannot handle that many issure at once and consequently, I have not even bothered to read your posts.

[zimbabwe]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

We know also that the children of God cannot be exalted as single individuals. Neither a man nor a woman can be exalted in the celestial kingdom unless both unite in the unselfishness of the everlasting covenant of marriage and unless both choose to keep the commandments and honor the covenants of that united state. Elder Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Ensign, January 2001.

I can not verify the accuracy of this quote since I am unable to find it. Whatever context in which Elder Oaks was speaking, assuming the quote to be accurate, it should not be misinterpreted that a righteous wife or husband will not enjoy exaltation if they have an unfaithful spouse. That would not be just, would it? The bolded section is correct however. But as I said in a prior post, all will have a chance at marriage regardless of their disadvantages in this life.

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by zimbabwe

Hiram:

I would be happy to discuss what Mormons really believe with you if you would not make multiple, tandem, long complex posts that raise multple issues. My brain cannot handle that many issure at once and consequently, I have not even bothered to read your posts.

Nor can Hiram's

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by zimbabwe

Birdy,

Thanks for your kind words above. I hear so much negativity in this forum that it is a welcome change. As I said, I am visiting my parents--celebrating my father's 80th birthday--and all they have is dial-up. Which is OK, but I don't want to tie up their line for very long.

My friend, you have a gentle and kind spirit, and Birdbrain has appreciated your attempts at answering some of my questions and concerns.

When you get back from fellowship with your parents, I trust we can continue regarding the changes that have come about as a result of Joseph Smith's changing of Canon by addition of words not supported by the Hebrew or Greek Koine.

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by zimbabwe

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is tranlsated correctly. That is not some huge loophole that others have made it out to be.

Again I will state that the foundation upon which all Scripture of the Christian Church is based in foundation, is the original languages of the documents: in this case, the ancient Hebrew of the Old, and Koine Greek of the New Covenant. The K.J.V. has a number of pronounced mis-translations of a number of words, and can easily be demonstrated as such by examining the Koine or Hebrew, and by comparison of other excellent translations for comparison. But any texual change must be on that foundation alone!

First of all, Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible is not taken from a text or an original source but is considered an inspired revision to clarify the doctrines of the Bible. It is incomplete and is not the official Bible of the Church.

O.K.

One example of a Bible revision made by Joseph Smith in the Joseph Smith translation is Hebrews 6:1 which in the original KJV says, "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ...". The Joseph Smith translation says, "Therefore not leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ..." (emphasis added)

This is a radical change by the addition of one single word "not" to the Koine of Hebrews 6:1. Can it be supported in the Koine, and how does the addition of one digit to Pi affect the universe? Yes, this is not Pi, but the addition changes the message of the inspired text 180 degrees and causes similar implosion .

The Foundation: Hebrews 6:1=

dio afenteV ton thV archV tou cristou logon epi thn teleiothta ferwmeqa mh palin qemelion kataballomenoi metanoiaV apo nekrwn ergwn kai pistewV epi qeon

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You will note that "not" is not in the Koine Greek. But let us continue with verse 2, which is....

baptismwn didachn epiqesewV te ceirwn anastasewV nekrwn kai krimatoV aiwniou

And verse 3=

kai touto poihsomen eanper epitreph o qeoV

Put it all together we have the K.J.V. translated thus....

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

What we cannot find in the addition of "not" is oujciv. Oujciv is not before "leaving", nor the Koine mhv as "mhv laying".

The L.D.S. is not alone in their desire to change the message of going on to perfection, "if God permit", by the leaving, of what is termed by the writer of Hebrews, as "first principles" (R.S.V.), and "elementary discourse" (Rhm), and "elementary instruction" (Weymouth). "elementary teaching" (T.C.N.T.) & (Wms), "elementary doctrines of Christ" (Mon), "rudiments of Christianity" (NEB), "first lessons in Christ" (Ronald Knox), all of which speak of moving past what most people in the Christian world spend the vast amount of their time proclaiming. It happens to be true, but the words of the apostle to the Hebrews proclaims let us move on, or, "be borne along and pass to our full growth" from the elemental doctrines of the Christ, into the outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown (to quote my favorite writer George MacDonald).

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by zimbabwe

I can not verify the accuracy of this quote since I am unable to find it. Whatever context in which Elder Oaks was speaking, assuming the quote to be accurate, it should not be misinterpreted that a righteous wife or husband will not enjoy exaltation if they have an unfaithful spouse. That would not be just, would it? The bolded section is correct however. But as I said in a prior post, all will have a chance at marriage regardless of their disadvantages in this life.

zimbabwe,
My intent wasn't to fuel any "fires". I was only focusing in on the importance of marriage within the Mormon faith. This wasn't meant to be a hate discord.

There are several objections to this statement:

"sealed in an eternal marriage, linked to their generations, and assured of exaltation"

1. "sealed in an eternal marriage." Jesus replied to this when asked by the Sadducee's, who say there is no resurrection.... they Sadducee's were trying to disprove the resurrection, but Jesus focused on marriage beyond this life

Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"

"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage." Matthew 22:22-32 (NIV)

Luke 20:27-39 (NIV) expands it to say this (note bold print in this passage)

Luke 20:34Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage.

35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,

36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

verse 35 (KJV) "But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage"

Do you understand what Jesus just said? This is a direct revelation from Jesus that attacks LDS teaching. No more marriages or given into marriages, and those who believe such things are not considered worthy.

Why does Jesus reveal such things as recorded in the Bible if it isn't true?

What was the responce to Jesus?

Luke 29:39-40 "Some of the teachers of the law responded, "Well said, teacher!" 40And no one dared to ask him any more questions."

Zimbabwe, there should be alarm bells going off inside of you. Please, listen to Jesus' warning.....those who will be considered worthy will not be married or given into marriage. This is a revealed fact.

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by zimbabwe

On the other hand, if you were not angry at the time of the interviews, then it is probable that you are angry at Mormons now because you did not get the job. Whatever the cause of your anger, you should learn to forgive and forget--for your sake.

Sequence:
- definitely not angry at the time of the interview
- felt that inappropriate personal questions were asked during an interivew, the earliest of which was at age 24 (slightly introverted then, and with some acne which is now all gone, so "no chip") in L.A., but answered them
- assessed in hindsight that this is a "big deal" for Mormons
- had other experiences in social settings and professional settings that would reinforce this....that condescending "oh...."
- "turned off" because this is a feature almost exclusive to LDS and not to other Christian religions; the most that other Christian sects do is organize singles clubs, as a convenience, and just "shrug"...taking a what happens happens attitude...

[Hiram]

Question to Mormons

If Jesus told the Samarian woman that true worshippers would worship God in spirit and in truth, then why are you still worshiping in a temple?

John 4:20-24 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you [Jews] say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. "God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Acts 17:24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.

The temple was destroyed by the Roman legions in 70 AD.