What do Mormons really believe? Let's discuss Mormonism!!! (Greek, perfect, rejecting)
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Where are you getting this quote? You are spending too much time studying Mormonism I think. I looked for it myself and here it is:
“Salvation does not come all at once; we are commanded to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. It will take us ages to accomplish this end, for there will be greater progress beyond the grave, and it will be there that the faithful will overcome all things, and receive all things, even the fulness of the Father’s glory.
“I believe the Lord meant just what he said: that we should be perfect, as our Father in heaven is perfect. That will not come all at once, but line upon line, and precept upon precept, example upon example, and even then not as long as we live in this mortal life, for we will have to go even beyond the grave before we reach that perfection and shall be like God.” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 2:18–19.)
It was the Lord that commanded us to be perfect. This is not a casual endeavor nor will it be accomplished in this lifetime. I would think that would relieve you of all the pressure you feel, Twin, but I know you are going to go off criticisizing my faith again. Forgive me, but you are beginning to sound like Johnny One Note.
Not sure what you're referring to as pressure that I may be feeling. I'm not criticizing your faith, but hoping that you see that placing faith incorrectly has eternal consequences.
In his Holy Word Heavenly Father warns us that physical death is the final gate. Our fate is sealed when we die. Luke 16:25-26, Proverbs 11:7.
Even the Book of Mormon agrees:
2 Nephi 9:38: And, in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.
Alma 34:32-33: For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors. 33And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.
God demands perfection now, not “all you can do” or beyond the grave. Matthew 5:48, Galatians 3:10.
The Master’s voice is calling. Can you hear it? Will you reject it?
When you approach the Judgment Seat on Judgment Day will you be wearing Christ’s perfect, radiant robe of righteous? (The robe Heavenly Father offers you as a free gift based on your trust that the sacrifice of His Son is sufficient)
Or will you be wearing your own robe of “all I can do”, pointing to your own works saying “Lord, Lord look at the wondrous works I have done in your name”?
Galatians 2:20-21: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
You do have a choice, will you reject it?
Just to let you know, Christ did not die in vain!
I'm perfect now! You can be also.
Only God the Father.
From the Bible we read:
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. James 1:5-6
Similarly in the Book of Mormon we read:
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
Moroni 10:4-5.
As coolcats has said the Book of Mormon comes with a promise. I do not expect any one to take my word for the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Before he buried the plates in the hill Cumorah, Moroni added these words to the end of the book:
Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things (Moroni: 10:3-5)
Amazingly, this approach to learning the truth has been criticized in this forum. One has referred to praying to God to know the truth as a from of brainwashing and a cultish exercize: "They asked me to pray to God if the BOM was true or not. This is very cultic and a form of brainwashing". This same individual called prayer to God a "little seance". The Bible urges us to pray if we lack wisdom. Peter gained his testimony from the spirit of God and we must gain our testimonies the same way. I would ask you, what spirit teaches a man not to pray? Is it the good spirit or the evil spirit?
First we must read the Book of Mormon, then we must ponder the message it contains then we must ask the Father in the name of Christ if the Book is not true. If we ask in faith and with real intent, we will come to know the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Just to let you know, Christ did not die in vain!
I'm perfect now! You can be also.
I'm not entirely sure that I like this. I understand where you are coming from, but I'm not comfortable claiming perfection. Since this is off-topic, I'll leave it at that.
1. Why is the language of Isaiah 53 from 1609, the same language as the Book of Mosiah chapter 14 two centuries later?
Where are you coming up with these questions? Are you reading and studying the Book of Mormon that intensely? If so I am impressed. However, I am skeptical and suspect that you are merely parroting anti-Mormon screeds. Against my better judgment I will try to answer your question. In 1830, King James English was the language of scripture, and since The Book of Mormon is scripture it is written in the same language. I served my mission in Korea. The Korean Book of Mormon was also translated the same way--into the older, somewhat archaic but beautiful language of the Bible.
In 1830, King James English was the language of scripture, and since The Book of Mormon is scripture it is written in the same language.
In A.D.1600 the language of Scripture was in old English. In 1820 the language had changed extensively. Evidently you don't find it strange that Mosiah 14 and Isa. 53 are almost identical, and that the same blunders are repeated in Mormon "scripture" exactly like the K.J.V. Why?
This is what the original 1830 Book of Mormon text is in 1 Nephi 3, p. 25 (the 1830 text did not have verse divisions)
Quote:
And he said unto me. Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh.
1830 Book of Mormon, page 25a (broken link)
And the corrected version=
Quote:
And he said unto me, Behold the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God. -1 Nephi 11:18-
The original 1830 text of Alma 15 Page 303=
Quote:
yea, I know that he alloteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable....according to their wills.
1830 Book of Mormon, page 303 (broken link)
Altered text Alma 29:4=
Quote:
yea, I know that he alloteth unto men, according to their wills.
The words "yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable" in the later editions from 1840 to 1980 of the Book of Mormon, deleted without explanation these eight words. L. Day Saints leaders re-inserted the omitted words into all editions since 1981.
I'm not entirely sure that I like this. I understand where you are coming from, but I'm not comfortable claiming perfection. Since this is off-topic, I'll leave it at that.
This isn't really off topic, because I have long ago touched on the perfection issue. My attempt here has never ridicule anybody, but to witness to those of the Mormon faith as accurately as possible with the hope of 2 things...
1. That somebody of LDS reading this will see the difference between what the Bible revealed of Gods plan of salvation is in contrast to Mormons plan of salvation. In reading this, that somebody will turn and live.
2. Those who think the two are Christian (LDS and Christianity) will see there is a big divide between the two. (that's if you're willing to see it)
I really appreciated Zimbabwe's demeanor through all of this. I have a fair amount of friends that are LDS that remind me of Zimbabwe. It has been through my Mormon friends (and their daughters who are good friends with my children) that I have gained most of the day to day knowledge of the Mormon life and belief. The post #115 is the culmination of Mormons witnessing to me.... some have a problem with that.
I did the"claiming perfection" for 2 reasons.
1. Most importantly, all true believers are perfectnow because they are credited with Christ's righteousness (perfection) through their faith in Him alone. Before our death, our state is 'sinful' but our status with God is perfect. In fact, "perfection" as taught in the Bible is a all or nothing concept. That is for a different topic.
2. LDS faith is about BECOMING perfect (which can be stressful to some Mormons) as Zimbabwe quoted -
A."That will not come all at once",
B. "but line upon line"
C. "precept upon precept"
D. "example upon example"
E. "and even then not as long as we live in this mortal life, for we will have to go even beyond the grave before we reach that perfection"
As I said before, one of the major differences between the God of Christianity and the god of Mormon's is how Jesus is viewed...
I still pray for those who post from the Mormon belief that they heed Gods calling as how Jesus revealed it in the Bible and stop rejecting it. That is my deepest desire for Zimbabwe, Coolcats, Sergent, Stycotl and others.
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