What do Mormons really believe? Let's discuss Mormonism!!! (gods, contradiction, Jerusalem)
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Many Churches today demand that their listeners give "tithe" to the Church. And those who preach the Word of God take wages from that tithe, as payment for their services. However, was tithe used in this way in the Old Testament? If so, why? God considered it evil if a priest teaches for money. So what exactly is tithe, and what was it used for?
First of all, a tithe is literally defined as "a tenth part." It is giving and sacrificing a tenth of a possession. Most people assume that it means a tenth of ones money, however, it refers to animals and the fruit of the ground rather than it does money!
Leviticus 27:30,32 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD."
Deuteronomy 12:17, "Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock...:"
2 Chronicles 31:5-6, "...the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly...they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps."
It is interesting to note that Churches do not ask for a tenth of your seeds, or fruits, or herds, or flocks, or corn, or wine, or oil, or honey, or oxen and sheep, or any thing, they are only interested in your money. Why? What is really facinating is that nowhere in the scripture does it show anyone giving money as tithe!
Nehemiah 13:5, "And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests."
Only animals and the fruits of the ground were used for tithes. After a thorough search of scripture, nowhere is any form of money given as tithe! Maybe this is why God condemns preachers who ask for money (not preachers who freely receive money). Can it be that money was never meant to be a part of the tithe?
Even when Jesus talked about tithe, it was never in reference to money (which is a creation of man), but to the things which were created by God:
Matthew 23:23, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."
Luke 11:42, "But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."
Who was in charge of the tithes? The tithes were granted to the Levites for the use of the sanctuary, and the maintenance of themselves and their families, as they had no other inheritance in Israel. This is important to understand! The Levites did not have any inheritance at all in Israel, whereas everyone else did have rights to inheritance. All other people in Israel were taken care of through inheritance and other means, whereas the Levites did not have this same right. Their only means of sustenance was the tithe, because of their specific duty to God.
Do today's priests have just as much right of inheritance as everyone else in their country? Yes, they do. If the Levites had just as much right as the rest of the people of their nation, there would have been no need for them to take tithes. This is an important point. Under the New Testament, all men have the right to inheritance (Acts 20:32, Revelation 21:7). And since nobody is denied inheritance anymore, there is no need for any man to receive tithes anymore.
Numbers 18:23-24, ""But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation...that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance. But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance."
The Levites did not preach the Word of God, they maintained the temple of God. The temple of God has been destroyed, and there is no more sacrifices and offerings going on. Thus, since there is no more temple, and God does not dwell in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48; 17:24), there is no more need to give tithes, since its purpose is done away with.
What did the Levites do with the tithe they received? As the Levites had the tithe of the whole land, they themselves were obliged to give the tithe of this tithe to the priests, and this tithe or tenth they were obliged to select from the best part of the substance they had received (Numbers 18:26-29). Notice that only a tenth of the tithe were given to priests! In other words, when a tithe was given to the Levites, only a tenth of that tithe was given to the priests! Is that what Churches do today? No they do not. The priests use 100% of that tithe as they see fit, not 10% as God commands.
As a side note, notice tithe was offered as a heave offering. It was part of the offerings and sacrifices that were abolished under the New Testament.
Deuteronomy 12:6, "And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:" (See also Deuteronomy 12:11).
How else were tithes spent?
Deuteronomy 14:28-29, "At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest."
Every three years, the ministers of religion, the stranger, the widow, the fatherless, and all who are destitute should be kindly remembered, and share in the tithes and blessings which God graciously gives us.
Where was the tithe to be stored? Tithe was brought into the treasure house (Nehemiah 10:38) which was in the chambers of the house of God (Nehemiah 10:37), which was in the Lord's house (Deuteronomy 26:13). God's tithe was not stored in some bank run by heathens, as it is today.
Does today's Churches follow these ordinances of tithes? If they do not, this is considered robbery from God:
Malachi 3:7-10, "Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
As this passage states, His children have robbed God through tithes and offerings. Just like today's Churches do.
There you go Red, looks like you hit a hot button topic with the tithing issue. Welcome to all the new people.
Shall we get back to article of faith number eight? I think I will proceed but I will be flexible.
Joseph Smith as a young boy had prayed to God to know which church to join and he received a miraculous answer unlike anything he had ever expected. I ask you if God really intended to call a prophet in these latter days and restore His church in its purity, who do you think He would call? A man of letters? A great renowned Doctor of Divinity? Perhaps a popular preacher or a published author with a ready audience? What is the Lord's pattern? Was John the Baptist any of these? Was Peter a man of letters?
Do you remember Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory? I have only seen the 1971 version. In the last scene Willy Wonka explains to the boy Charlie and his grandfather why he chose a child to eventually take over the operations of the chocolate factory and it was simply that an adult would have wanted to do it his own way and would not have been open the ways of Willy Wonka.
This is my own observation and we don't teach anything about Willy Wonka at church but the fact of the matter is that children are pure and not yet prejudiced in their thinking. That is why the Lord chose a young 14 year old boy.
An interesting thing happened to Joseph Smith after his first vision. He was naive enough to tell it to one of his favorite ministers in town. To his surprise he was treated with contempt and was told that it was all from the devil. He soon learned that his telling of the vision aroused a great deal of prejudice against him and made him the object of derision by the great ones of his community, even though he was a young boy of absolutely no wordly consequence.
From Joseph Smith's own words, speaking of his experience with a local preacher and others:
... I took occasion to give him an account of the vision which I had had. I was greatly surprised at his behavior; he treated my communication not only lightly, but with great contempt, saying it was all of the devil, that there were no such things as visions or revelations in these days; that all such things had ceased with the apostles, and that there would never be any more of them. I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution, which continued to increase; and though I was an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, and my circumstances in life such as to make a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice sufficient to excite the public mind against me, and create a bitter persecution; and this was common among all the sects—all united to persecute me. (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History)
I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise.
So it was with me. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History)
Christ did come to complete the law. and He did. but He gave us new laws even as He did, higher laws. We still have law. i still have to live by faith in order to find salvation. that is a law. repentance is a law.
tithing might not be super important in some aspects (God obviously does not need it for His sustenance). But we still need faith-promoting trials and tests.
when my wife and i got married, i was in the marine corps, not getting paid a whole lot, and my wife was a part-time therapist. she made more than i did hourly by far, but with her hours, still not a lot.
we made tithing a priority. we decided that we would use the rest of our small income to pay our bills, and try to put 40-50% in savings, even with apartment rent, utilities, etc. we were trusting in the Lord that we would not have emergencies that would cripple our savings and our ability to save, and we showed that faith by paying tithing.
during our first two years of marraige, on a small income, we saved $20,000. now we are back in utah, looking for our first house, and though we are not going to be able to afford anything fancy, we would not have been able to do it at all without the money that we saved, money that God allowed us to keep, through car accidents, medical issues, vacations, etc, on a humble income. and i truly believe that one of the reasons that He blessed us with that is because of the faith that we attempted to put forth in paying our tithing dilligently every month.
Christ did come to complete the law. and He did. but He gave us new laws even as He did, higher laws. We still have law. i still have to live by faith in order to find salvation. that is a law. repentance is a law.
tithing might not be super important in some aspects (God obviously does not need it for His sustenance). But we still need faith-promoting trials and tests.
when my wife and i got married, i was in the marine corps, not getting paid a whole lot, and my wife was a part-time therapist. she made more than i did hourly by far, but with her hours, still not a lot.
we made tithing a priority. we decided that we would use the rest of our small income to pay our bills, and try to put 40-50% in savings, even with apartment rent, utilities, etc. we were trusting in the Lord that we would not have emergencies that would cripple our savings and our ability to save, and we showed that faith by paying tithing.
during our first two years of marraige, on a small income, we saved $20,000. now we are back in utah, looking for our first house, and though we are not going to be able to afford anything fancy, we would not have been able to do it at all without the money that we saved, money that God allowed us to keep, through car accidents, medical issues, vacations, etc, on a humble income. and i truly believe that one of the reasons that He blessed us with that is because of the faith that we attempted to put forth in paying our tithing dilligently every month.
Jospeh Smith was pretty much ostracized in the community where he lived for insisting that he had seen a vision. He carried out his usual occupations until he was 17 years old. On the night of September 23, 1823, 17 year old Joseph felt to seek forgiveness for his sins and to know his standing in the sight of God. Having been left to himself during the intervening years, he fell in company with jovial associates that he felt were not in keeping with one who was called of God as he was.
As he prayed, his room began to fill with light until he saw an angel standing in the air by his bed. The angel introduced himself as Moroni (that should sound familiar to those who have been following this thread), a messenger from God, and that God had work for him to do and that his name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people--or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all nations. The angel told Joseph about an ancient record written on gold plates, containing the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and an account of the ancient inhabitants of the American continent.
The angel expounded upon many prophecies in the old testament and told him that they were about to be fulfilled. He showed the young Joseph in a vision where the record was concealed amd warned Joseph that they gold plates were of no worth but for the purposes of God and that many would try to take them from him, but if he was faithful and did all he could to secure them they would remain safe in his possession
The angel also explained that the mean for translating the record was also buried with the plates. It was called the Urim and Thummim.
The angel Moroni told Joseph Smith many things, and after he finished his message he departed. The young Joseph lay musing on the "singularity of the scene" and "marveling greatly" when in the middle of his mediatation, the room started getting light again and the same heavenly messenger appeared at his bedside.
The angel repeated the same message without the least variation and added a few words about the judgements of God on the earth. He then departed.
To his great astonishment the same messenger appeared a third time and repeated the entire message word for word. The message was indelibly impressed upon the young Joseph. By the time the angel left the third time, the rooster crowed and it was time to get up and go to work on the family farm.
As Joseph was working with his father in the field it became evident to his father that his son was not able to work and he sent him back to the house. As he was climbing over the fence to go to the house, Joseph collapsed from exhaustion. When he came to, he saw the same messenger--the angel Moroni--standing over him who rehearsed to Joseph the very same things he had the night before. The angel Moroni instructed him to go tell his father the things he had seen, which he did. He rehearsed the whole matter to his father who told him that it was of God and to do as the angel commanded. Accordingly, Joseph went to the hill that had been shown to him in the vision.
The angel repeated the same message without the least variation and added a few words about the judgements of God on the earth. He then departed.
Galatians 1:6-10 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Jesus said His words lead to eternal life (John 6:63). But for us to receive eternal life through His words, they must be taken as He intended them to be taken.
A cultic reinterpretation of Scripture that yields another Jesus and another gospel (2 Corinthians 11:3-4; Galatians 1:6-9) will yield only eternal death (Revelation 20:11-15).
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
Christ did come to complete the law. and He did. but He gave us new laws even as He did, higher laws. We still have law. i still have to live by faith in order to find salvation. that is a law. repentance is a law.
i truly believe that one of the reasons that He blessed us with that is because of the faith that we attempted to put forth in paying our tithing diligently every month.
Stycol,
It depends on your definition of "complete".
When Christ said in a loud voice "IT IS FINISHED", he was saying that he fulfilled everything that God demanded from the law. To say we still have the law (any law) that we must do is to not believe that he did everything that the law requires.
Read all the passages that I posted about the end result of those who try to get to heaven (inherit the kingdom, showing yourself worthy before Heavenly Father)..
Galations 4:21-31, they will never inherit eternal life. Paul was referring to Abraham, God didn't change his plan of salvation, his requirements in to the OT believers or in Christs day. It was always based outside of the law.
It is contradictory to say that Christ "completed" the law, then say you're still under the law. It boils down to what you're understanding of the word "IT". The "IT" that Christ was referring to was all the demands Heavenly Father requires under the law. God demands absolute perfection before entering. Either Christ did away with the law completely or he didn't.
Yes I'm a "stickler" about grace, law, faith. There is no law in salvation, there is only but Gods wrath. The point of "IT IS FINISHED" is Gods wrath stops with Christ with the end of the law, or it will end with you.....
You have but one of 2 choices:
1. Jesus is the perfect substitute for you in Christianity (abolisher of the law once and for all)
or,
2. Jesus is a never relenting task master of law which only produces Gods wrath
"and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord" (D & C 119)
Any revelation other than #1 is not from God
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The apostle Paul also repeated something
