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Yes, religion is a serious matter. I agree. Because I agree, I believe in using a variety of sources and kinds of information to inform my religious decisions and beliefs. I try to read from sources on both sides of the issue, in an attempt to find the truth.
If I understand you correctly, you believe that only currently active Mormons are good sources of information about the Mormon church, its history, and its doctrines past and present. I know there are many who agree with you. I just don't happen to be one of them.
But I am certainly not trying to tell you what you as an individual believe.
I've read your earlier posts and you are trying to tell me what I believe. I don't accept that from anyone. Tell what your religion is and let me try to tell you what you believe by going to an anti source for references. Oops. I can't. We don't believe in that. We only have time to discuss what brings us joy, our own religion. Why aren't you out starting new threads with discussion about what brings you joy. Doesn't your faith bring you enough joy to discuss it? Don't you want to share your faith with others? No, you and others like you are here trying to convince others what I believe. Does that make sense?
MomtoFour made an interesting statement regarding LDS Apologists taking a significant amount of time defending various portions of the Book of Mormon. She seemed to infer this was necessary to cover our embarrassment over errors or inconsistencies in the text. All the time spent by our leaders and various experts in the Church explaining text or various changes in the Book of Mormon would not be necessary if it weren’t for the Tanners and others of their ilk.
Sergeant, that's not what I said and that's not what I meant. All religions have apologists, because every religion has those who question or who don't believe.
I brought up the Mormon apologists because I knew my source that actually listed the 1830 text and the current text side-by-side (for the handful of verses where I thought the change could be doctrinal) would be a controversial source for Mormons. So I wanted to show that Mormons agreed with the basic facts (that the text had been changed) even if they disagreed with the other source's argument (that the changes altered the meaning of the text).
I was trying to be evenhanded in the presentation of evidence.
I've read your earlier posts and you are trying to tell me what I believe. I don't accept that from anyone. Tell what your religion is and let me try to tell you what you believe by going to an anti source for references. Oops. I can't. We don't believe in that. We only have time to discuss what brings us joy, our own religion. Why aren't you out starting new threads with discussion about what brings you joy. Doesn't your faith bring you enough joy to discuss it? Don't you want to share your faith with others? No, you and others like you are here trying to convince others what I believe. Does that make sense?
I'm really not trying to be obtuse, Annibelle, but I don't know which posts you are referring to where I try to convince others what you believe. Could you point me to the specific posts? Then I might have a better idea of what you find offensive.
In fact, my first post in this thread was to share my experience of a mainline Christian church that accepted Mormons as Christians.
As for my posting habits, well, I don't start threads. I do reply to threads that have nothing to do with Mormonism, although I don't normally post a lot here. This thread is somewhat unusual, because people have asked me direct questions or responded directly to my posts.
Sergeant, it is my understanding that several verses that deal with Jesus have been changed from the 1830 version. Specifically, they used to refer to Jesus as God, the Eternal Father, or the Everlasting Father and have since been changed to add "the Son of" to these verses.
I've seen Mormon apologists say that these changes were made to help readers understand the meaning of the verses. I guess if you are coming from the position that the church is true, that explanation makes sense. For those of us who don't make that assumption, it seems clear that Joseph Smith made the changes to reflect his changing view of the Trinity.
The fact that Mormon apologists seek to explain the changes instead of deny them, makes me fairly confident that the text was changed.
Here is one of several. If you are no longer a member because you don't believe in the lds faith, then why try to explain to others or to members like me what my faith means? You said back on the boards that you go to a new church now. Are you happy, satisfied with that faith? If so, then why don't you start a thread and talk about what you seem to be living the most or the best right now? Your faith, your church, not ours. You don't represent the lds church, your not living now, but your on the board giving info as if you do. Also, why would you quote mormon apologists? They are not church authority either? If you were active in the past 3 years, the president of the church spoke at a conference saying, "We do not need so called mormon apologists to defend our religion." So, when will you go somewhere and share your own religious beliefs?
Here is one of several. If you are no longer a member because you don't believe in the lds faith, then why try to explain to others or to members like me what my faith means? You said back on the boards that you go to a new church now. Are you happy, satisfied with that faith? If so, then why don't you start a thread and talk about what you seem to be living the most or the best right now? Your faith, your church, not ours. You don't represent the lds church, your not living now, but your on the board giving info as if you do. Also, why would you quote mormon apologists? They are not church authority either? If you were active in the past 3 years, the president of the church spoke at a conference saying, "We do not need so called mormon apologists to defend our religion." So, when will you go somewhere and share your own religious beliefs?
Annibelle, if I'm understanding you correctly, you think only Mormons should be allowed to post on Mormon threads, unless perhaps the non-Mormons are asking questions. If that's the issue, I'm afraid we will never come to an agreement.
I've read your earlier posts and you are trying to tell me what I believe. I don't accept that from anyone. Tell what your religion is and let me try to tell you what you believe by going to an anti source for references. Oops. I can't. We don't believe in that. We only have time to discuss what brings us joy, our own religion. Why aren't you out starting new threads with discussion about what brings you joy. Doesn't your faith bring you enough joy to discuss it? Don't you want to share your faith with others? No, you and others like you are here trying to convince others what I believe. Does that make sense?
annibelle:
I share your sentiments concerning those who spend so much time and effort tearing down someone else's faith. Glen L Pace had some thing to say about this:
It seems that history continues to teach us: You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone. The basic reason for this is simple. Once someone has received a witness of the Spirit and accepted it, he leaves neutral ground. One loses his testimony only by listening to the promptings of the evil one, and Satan’s goal is not complete when a person leaves the Church, but when he comes out in open rebellion against it. (emphasis added)
It seems that history continues to teach us: You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone. The basic reason for this is simple. Once someone has received a witness of the Spirit and accepted it, he leaves neutral ground. One loses his testimony only by listening to the promptings of the evil one, and Satan’s goal is not complete when a person leaves the Church, but when he comes out in open rebellion against it.
I have to ask then, what about those of us who have left the LDS church but know without a doubt that we have a stronger testimony/witness of the Holy Spirit now than before? It makes for quite a dilemma because LDS are strong in their beliefs as are those outside of the mormon church who are strong in theirs.
I have to ask then, what about those of us who have left the LDS church but know without a doubt that we have a stronger testimony/witness of the Holy Spirit now than before? It makes for quite a dilemma because LDS are strong in their beliefs as are those outside of the mormon church who are strong in theirs.
Urban, you've missed the point of the quote. You can go your way and believe however you wish. You can worship "how, where, or what you may" according to the dictates of your own conscience. But people like you just can't seem to leave the LDS Church alone. Why?
But people like you just can't seem to leave the LDS Church alone.
Excuse me, but when did I say something out of line here? Is it not ok for us to discuss things here whether or not we have been a member of the mormon church?
Last edited by urbanlemur; 01-12-2008 at 03:42 PM..
Reason: added question
Excuse me, but when did I say something out of line here? Is it not ok for us to discuss things here whether or not we have been a member of the mormon church?
No, Urban, you didn't say anything out of line, and yes, it is OK to discuss things here. What confuses Zimbabwe, Annibelle, and most members of the LDS Chruch is why former members even care to discuss their former faith. I can only tell you I would not care to discuss Methodism or why I disagree with its doctrines, but that's me.
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MomtoFour
