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Hi Ans - such a glorious reunion with so many here all at the same time whom I've not "seen" in a while. XXOO
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Originally Posted by ans57
I get that we all need to recharge our spiritual strength from time to time. What's amazing to me is that, we seem to reappear ready for the next round almost at the same time - what's up with that?
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Originally Posted by Heartsong
Divine Providence? Perhaps God arranged it for a purpose
When the Muslims overran Constantinople and destroyed the bishopric. That led to the ascendance of the Bishop of Rome. The RCC finished the job using the might of the Roman Empire.
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Originally Posted by Gabriel A. Pettinicchio
For those of you that believe the original church did not disappear and that it lives on, I would like to see it's lineage or it's Apostolic Succession. It would have had to continue from their time, so their must be a visual history or path that includes that true church.
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
Not all things are visible; it's a matter of the heart or Spirit.
The true church is comprised of ALL followers of Christ . . . NOT the members of some institution dedicated to specific beliefs ABOUT Christ . . . complete with elaborate and expensive Cathedrals, Churches, Chapels, rituals, sacraments, and other magical encumbrances including traditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel A. Pettinicchio
No, Christ established a very visible Church for all the world to see. A Church can not be teaching universally without being seen by all.
No He did NOT! Christ had no intention of creating an elaborate "Sinstitution" headed by a hierarchy of corrupt men. The "he who would be first" injunction by Christ was NOT the creation of a ritual for anointing the leader (as the RCC has deemed it) . . . it was a condemnation of the very idea of a hierarchy. The followers themselves were to be visible and by their lifestyles and examples be visible examples of the Gospel. Christ meant what St Francis of Assisi is credited with saying. Spread the Gospel (Good News) . . . use words if necessary . . . but certainly NOT create elaborate structures, endow hierarchies with worldly power and authority, accumulate wealthy possessions, parade around in elaborate dress with pomp and circumstance befitting royalty, and the other nonsense characteristic of the RCC at the Vatican.
The true church is comprised of ALL followers of Christ . . . NOT the members of some institution dedicated to specific beliefs ABOUT Christ . . . complete with elaborate and expensive Cathedrals, Churches, Chapels, rituals, sacraments, and other magical encumbrances including traditions.
No He did NOT! Christ had no intention of creating an elaborate "Sinstitution" headed by a hierarchy of corrupt men. The "he who would be first" injunction by Christ was NOT the creation of a ritual for anointing the leader (as the RCC has deemed it) . . . it was a condemnation of the very idea of a hierarchy. The followers themselves were to be visible and by their lifestyles and examples be visible examples of the Gospel. Christ meant what St Francis of Assisi is credited with saying. Spread the Gospel (Good News) . . . use words if necessary . . . but certainly NOT create elaborate structures, endow hierarchies with worldly power and authority, accumulate wealthy possessions, parade around in elaborate dress with pomp and circumstance befitting royalty, and the other nonsense characteristic of the RCC at the Vatican.
I thought we have gone through this before.
When I say a VISABLE Church, I don't mean structures'. You must take me for an idiot.
By telling us that the followers themselves were to be visible and by their lifestyles and be visible examples of the Gospel. IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!! The Catholic Church is not a building.
Please show me anything in Catholic teaching or the Catechism that states otherwise.
The true church is comprised of ALL followers of Christ . . . NOT the members of some institution dedicated to specific beliefs ABOUT Christ . . . complete with elaborate and expensive Cathedrals, Churches, Chapels, rituals, sacraments, and other magical encumbrances including traditions.
No He did NOT! Christ had no intention of creating an elaborate "Sinstitution" headed by a hierarchy of corrupt men. The "he who would be first" injunction by Christ was NOT the creation of a ritual for anointing the leader (as the RCC has deemed it) . . . it was a condemnation of the very idea of a hierarchy. The followers themselves were to be visible and by their lifestyles and examples be visible examples of the Gospel. Christ meant what St Francis of Assisi is credited with saying. Spread the Gospel (Good News) . . . use words if necessary . . . but certainly NOT create elaborate structures, endow hierarchies with worldly power and authority, accumulate wealthy possessions, parade around in elaborate dress with pomp and circumstance befitting royalty, and the other nonsense characteristic of the RCC at the Vatican.
what would the people have for Angelo to go paint?
JuniPearl- I appreciate all your effort in your last post. I don't at all deny where your heart is.
In the hope of understanding you more, can you tell us the name of your denomination?
I don't know how my denomination will help you understand me more.
You can get to know me by who I am, the life I live, the testimonies I bear, etc.
My denomination isn't the only organization that follows the Biblical definition of the church. I know there are independent churches that follow the same principles too. I am not ashamed of who I am or what organization I belong to. BUT, out of respect for my organization I will not publicly proclaim my religion. I won't say why, but I will say some pretty awful things were said about my organization. It was very hurtful. I'd prefer not to venture down that road again. I don't mind speaking with you privately, but I won't do it publicly, there are too many people trolling the threads looking for an easy target to badger.
I will give you this much... I think it's pretty obvious that I come from the teachings of the Apostles Doctrine. To my knowledge, that is considered Apostolic. Whether you belong to an organization under another "title" or whether you are independent. If we follow the Apostles Doctrine our religious title or affiliation wouldn't matter, we would all be considered Apostolic. Just as we are all human, our ethnicity or native language doesn't make us any less human.
I'm not quite sure I follow:
Quote:
Also, as I've asked before with little response. Tell me some of the religious that kept the Church you describe in truth. I would like to know who (by name), after the Apostolic Age, continued their teachings into the present day.
Thanks.
How am I able to do this? Is there an underlying point? As in, are you saying the Catholic Church keeps documents and records throughout history in order to make a point that maybe they are the true church? I guess because they have documentation that means they know how far back they go? I don't quite understand the underlying point.
Are you wanting to know a lineage from RIGHT AFTER the Apostles? Or are you wanting a more present day lineage? The only way I know how to trace it after the Apostles is by the examples given in the Bible.
"We will know them by their fruits." Also, the miracles, signs and wonders that follow are a very good indicator of who they are. The Apostolic's can pick one another out in a crowd pretty easily. Many times I have come across people, whom I've never met before, and can tell they are true believers. I don't know how to describe it to you. It's almost like a magnetic pull. Humor me for a moment... If I'm filled with the Holy Ghost and I encounter someone else who is filled with the Holy Ghost, it's like my inner Holy Ghost is drawn to theirs. The Holy Ghost is not of this world, it's completely, 100% spiritual. That's why I can't describe it to you. People don't understand until they've actually lived in the spirit realm. Look at it as a sixth sense, if you will. Jesus said it perfectly when He said He was going to come back and live in us, He was sending the Comforter, the Holy Ghost. If the same advocate that's in me, is in someone else, I sense it. Or I should say my spirit senses it, same thing I guess.
When it comes to my Biblical/religious heritage I am 6th generation. My children are 7th generation. My family's first encounter with an Acts 2 experience was in the early 1900's. No one would believe me if I told the story of how it happened, but the story is amazing. I'm so thankful for my heritage. And my ancestor's didn't even belong to an "organization." But because I know the things that happened and how they lived, I know they were part of God's church, the Apostolic movement. I really don't know what to call it?? I've just always been under the impression that the NT church, built upon the Apostles Doctrine, is referred to as Apostolic. So that's what I'll call it. Lol.
When they went public they perished
They had Been monastic but became a family --and later a state--- religion
They lost the ability to heal
In their eagerness to embrace all they lost all
Wait... First off, are you referring to the true church?
If so, let me clarify by saying they never had the ability to heal. We are not healers. Only God can heal and do the works that man cannot possibly do. Remember, that's what the Holy Ghost is for.
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
Second, miracles, signs and wonders are still happening today. I wish more people could bear witness to the things that are happening world-wide. It would make a TRUE believer out of many!
The true church still exists, it never perished. To say it perished is to say Christ's body perished... AGAIN. He already won the victory over death, hell and the grave. He put on His indestructible body when He was glorified. More people need to dust off their Bibles and dig into the word of God. Food for the soul!!
When I say a VISABLE Church, I don't mean structures'. You must take me for an idiot.
By telling us that the followers themselves were to be visible and by their lifestyles and be visible examples of the Gospel. IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!! The Catholic Church is not a building.
Please show me anything in Catholic teaching or the Catechism that states otherwise.
There are times when one might wonder. What Mystic said was, "The true church is comprised of ALL followers of Christ . . . NOT the members of some institution dedicated to specific beliefs ABOUT Christ . . . complete with elaborate and expensive Cathedrals, Churches, Chapels, rituals, sacraments, and other magical encumbrances including traditions."
What does that have to do with the "Church" as a building? No, not an idiot, but I seriously wonder fairly frequently if you are reading and actually thinking about what is said or just reacting.
I don't know how my denomination will help you understand me more.
You can get to know me by who I am, the life I live, the testimonies I bear, etc.
My denomination isn't the only organization that follows the Biblical definition of the church. I know there are independent churches that follow the same principles too. I am not ashamed of who I am or what organization I belong to. BUT, out of respect for my organization I will not publicly proclaim my religion. I won't say why, but I will say some pretty awful things were said about my organization. It was very hurtful. I'd prefer not to venture down that road again. I don't mind speaking with you privately, but I won't do it publicly, there are too many people trolling the threads looking for an easy target to badger.
Well, now you know how I feel, but Christ told us to pick-up the sword. I am proud to be a Catholic. A true Church cannot be so in hiding. Look what the Apostles went thru to defend the Church. All but one were martyred. In order to change the world, one must be a part of it and if necessary die for Christ, much less get your feeling hurt.
I will give you this much... I think it's pretty obvious that I come from the teachings of the Apostles Doctrine. To my knowledge, that is considered Apostolic. Whether you belong to an organization under another "title" or whether you are independent. If we follow the Apostles Doctrine our religious title or affiliation wouldn't matter, we would all be considered Apostolic. Just as we are all human, our ethnicity or native language doesn't make us any less human.
Obvious to who, if you remain a secret? Apostolic is a name, as are religious titles. You are either human or your not. Science can prove that.
I'm not quite sure I follow:
How am I able to do this? Is there an underlying point? As in, are you saying the Catholic Church keeps documents and records throughout history in order to make a point that maybe they are the true church? I guess because they have documentation that means they know how far back they go? I don't quite understand the underlying point.
Do you believe the Catholic Church keeps documents and records (ie: The Bible itself) in order to make a point?
I believe the True Church must have visible roots, in order to establish it's relations and history.
Are you wanting to know a lineage from RIGHT AFTER the Apostles?
Yes, in order to trail your lineage from the Apostles to present day. You say the Church never died, so where was it after the apostles?
Or are you wanting a more present day lineage? The only way I know how to trace it after the Apostles is by the examples given in the Bible.
Any faith, any person can claim this. It is your Biblical interpretation vs another. The Church that the Lord started can be traced back to Him & his apostles. Only one church can do this and does so if one wants to confront their fears. It should be very easy for you to provide me with a name or 2, along with a respectable source.
"We will know them by their fruits." Also, the miracles, signs and wonders that follow are a very good indicator of who they are. The Apostolic's can pick one another out in a crowd pretty easily. Many times I have come across people, whom I've never met before, and can tell they are true believers. I don't know how to describe it to you. It's almost like a magnetic pull. Humor me for a moment... If I'm filled with the Holy Ghost and I encounter someone else who is filled with the Holy Ghost, it's like my inner Holy Ghost is drawn to theirs. The Holy Ghost is not of this world, it's completely, 100% spiritual. That's why I can't describe it to you. People don't understand until they've actually lived in the spirit realm. Look at it as a sixth sense, if you will. Jesus said it perfectly when He said He was going to come back and live in us, He was sending the Comforter, the Holy Ghost. If the same advocate that's in me, is in someone else, I sense it. Or I should say my spirit senses it, same thing I guess.
I'm sure most of us have all experienced great things and even miracles in our lives. I have, but that in and of itself proves nothing. Otherwise, you would have to admit that the Comforter is in me & many other Catholics I know.
It is too easy to simply study the Bible ... pick and choose, in order to defend what you wish to believe, in order to make your life better and w/o having to follow Christ, carrying your cross. Luther did it, all Protestants do it. Instead of conforming to God, they try to make Him conform to them. That's why their faiths keep multiplying.
When it comes to my Biblical/religious heritage I am 6th generation. My children are 7th generation. My family's first encounter with an Acts 2 experience was in the early 1900's. No one would believe me if I told the story of how it happened, but the story is amazing. I'm so thankful for my heritage. And my ancestor's didn't even belong to an "organization." But because I know the things that happened and how they lived, I know they were part of God's church, the Apostolic movement. I really don't know what to call it?? I've just always been under the impression that the NT church, built upon the Apostles Doctrine, is referred to as Apostolic. So that's what I'll call it. Lol.
For those of you that believe the original church did not disappear and that it lives on, I would like to see it's lineage or it's Apostolic Succession. It would have had to continue from their time, so their must be a visual history or path that includes that true church.
Here's an interesting article. Now it is written by a cog writer, but I found it to be very informative.
According to the New Testament, true Christianity was practiced throughout many areas of Asia Minor in the first century (this area is now in the country of Turkey). Most (between 15-17) of the 27 books of New Testament were written to or from church leaders in Asia Minor. (Even Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox leaders recognized that Asia Minor had early "apostolic succession"; essentially what they refer to as the early "apostolic see of Ephesus.") What scripture clearly shows, is that although there were Christians in various areas, the focus for the New Testament writers were the churches in Asia Minor. And interestingly, the last book of the Bible is specifically addressed to the churches of Asia Minor (Revelation 1:4,11). The last of the original apostles to die, John, died in Asia Minor and his disciple Polycarp of Smyrna was a major leader there. Those there also taught the true gospel and opposed others who promoted a different gospel. There were actually two major groups that claimed Christianity in the second century that claimed succession from the apostles, and only one of them has remained faithful--for some further details, please see Early Church History: Who Were the Two Major Groups Professed Christ in the Second and Third Centuries?
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Hi Ans - such a glorious reunion with so many here all at the same time whom I've not "seen" in a while. XXOO
What's amazing to me is that, we seem to reappear ready for the next round almost at the same time - what's up with that? 
