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Old 04-05-2014, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,420,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
The Pope would say God is the higher power, not him. Geesh. We all need a leader in any organization or else it would go to ruins.
It's like our country, we also need a leader and a government or our country would be gone long ago.
... without self-control, nothing would exist.
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:11 AM
 
439 posts, read 427,646 times
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If I have my facts straight, I think I read a post not too long ago claiming the Catholic Church was the first church. I have to strooooongly disagree with that. They also claimed that other religious organizations formed after that. Blah-dee blah-dee blah. I don't get involved in this "he said, she said" stuff.

Other than the fact that Jesus is God, I want to point out - He gave us commands from the beginning. When He robed Himself in flesh and walked this earth as Jesus, He was asked:
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The NT church was birthed with Jesus. He gave the NT church commands to live by which means the doctrine stems back to the beginning. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know much about other beliefs, this means the Catholic Church was NOT the first church.

Humor me for a moment and allow me to use certain words to deliver my point across...
The first church came from the OT time period (if you follow) and into the NT time period. The OT believers followed the commands of God AND... strongly believed "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" Last time I checked, the Catholic Church, or any other Trinity believers, do not believe God is one Lord.

I know I'm gonna ruffle some feathers. I don't mean to. But... From what I see, those who believe in the Trinity aren't part of "His church." They never were and still aren't. Like I said, I don't know much about the beliefs of others. I'm just going by what I've heard and read. Feel free to correct me if the Catholic/Trinity believers really do believe there is one Lord.

WHO IS THE NT CHURCH?

Now that's out of the way, let's establish who the NT church is...
  1. Jesus gave us our doctrine - commands, teachings, laws to live by
  2. He appointed 12 Apostles to carry out His doctrine, to share it with the world.
  3. Jesus is the "leader" but after He ascended He gave the 12 Apostles power and authority to lead His saints. The Apostles established "churches" but do not be deceived. They didn't establish churches that believed differently, no, they all believed the SAME.
    God's household (His church) is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:"

HOW DID IT ALL START?

What did the Apostles teach/preach/share with others? Jesus told them to tarry and wait... So they did. On the Day of Pentecost "they were all with one accord in one place." They were all with one mind!! We know what happened on the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2 recorded the birth of the NT church.
Notice... Peter addresses the multitude starting in V14 and continues all the way until V40. In V41 they are no longer a "crowd of people," they are now BELIEVERS! About 3,000 souls were added that day!
"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;"
THE CHURCH IS ONE - IN ONE MIND - HAVING ALL THINGS IN COMMON

What did they have in common?[indent]V38-42 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
Start reading from the KJV!! The meaning of the "Holy Ghost" is VERY IMPORTANT for people to understand. God is Spirit. God is the Holy Spirit. Only He is Holy because there is none other like Him. The Holy Ghost is the ghost of the departed man (Jesus). So we are not filled with the "Holy Spirit" because we are not God. Only in Jesus dwelt all the fullness of God, He is "the image of the invisible God." Therefore, we are filled with the Holy Ghost, the ghost of the departed man - Jesus, the Holy one, only He is Holy, there is only ONE! And His name is Jesus, He sent the Comforter, the Holy Ghost!

IT HAPPENED JUST AS JESUS FORETOLD WHEN HE COMMANDED THE APOSTLES TO SPREAD THE GOSPEL

I know there are some that say this passage shouldn't be in the Bible. I have a few things to say about that though...
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover... And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."

IT CAME TO PASS ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST: V43 "many wonders and signs were done by the apostles."
** "WHEN & HOW DID THE ORIGINAL CHURCH DISAPPEAR?" **

DO NOT BE FOOLED... It has not disappeared! It's alive and well today!! Thousands of souls are still being added to God's household.
In 2013 our organization witnessed a total of 1,197,365 NEW SOULS added according to the Acts 2 experience, in foreign missions alone!!
THE TOTAL OF 1,197,365 ONLY INCLUDES:
AFRICA, ASIA, CENTRAL AMERICA-CARIBBEAN, EUROPE-MIDDLE EAST, PACIFIC, SOUTH AMERICA
Just imagine how many more souls were added last year from other organizations that believe in the Acts 2 NT church experience.

God's household (the church) consists of saints (born again believers) that have all things in common, according to Acts 2. But it doesn't stop there, God is not finished with us. The Epistles are given to the born again believers so we can grow as a church, not just as a whole but individually too.

Many different organizations have formed around the globe but there's only one true church!!! Your religious affiliation won't save you, your personal views won't save you, theories and feel-good interpretations won't save you either. I married a man who belonged to a different organization but we believe the same doctrine. That's what makes up the body of Christ, "believers" - who are united, one mind, having all things in common - not your association.

JESUS APPOINTED THE APOSTLES TO BE LEADERS - LEADERSHIP WAS NOT CUT OFF UPON THEIR DEATHS

The body of Christ is not one member, but many. We are to unify ourselves, one with another.
"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
(<-- CHEW ON THAT A MINUTE, THINK IT OVER) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
ARE YOU A MEMBER OF GOD'S HOUSEHOLD?

Are you saved by grace?
Ep 4:7 "But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ."
  • GRACE IS GIVEN ACCORDING (in agreement) TO THE MEASURE OF (standard, standard of judgement, to judge by comparison with) THE GIFT OF CHRIST. WHATEVER THE ENDOWMENT (the act of providing; gift), HIS IS THE BESTOWMENT (He is the giver) AND ADJUSTMENT (the act of adjusting or state of being adjusted).
    = in agreement and upheld by the standard judgement, the requirement, of the Holy Ghost - the gift in which He gave and are required to be conformed to.

John 14:3-4 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

John 14:6-7 "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:14 "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

John 14:17-18 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

John 14:26 "the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things."

Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh."

Acts 2:33 Peter to the crowd: "...having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

Acts 2:38-39 "ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

That was barely the tip of the iceberg. But we can clearly see where the NT church started, how it started, how it grew and is still growing today!!! God showed us His mercy and love for us when He sacrificed Himself for the sins of man. All He asks of us is to follow His commands. That's the least we can do.

Christianity is a relationship with God. You cannot be a Christian unless you are a member of the body of Christ. To be a member of the body you must have all things in common. To have all things in common you must OBEY HIS COMMANDS!!!
"Whoever says, 'I know him,' but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person."
I know this is not what everyone wanted to hear. In Acts 2 the crowd was pricked in their heart when they heard the message Peter spoke. It hurt them deeply to hear they crucified Jesus, the one true Holy God. Had they known, they would not have killed Him. If they had only believed through the message He taught, the miracles He performed and the other signs and wonders He did. Only God Himself could do such things as this. And they knew that. They knew:
1. Deut 4:35 there is none else beside Him
2. Deut 32:39 there is none else with Him
3. Is 43:10 there is none formed before Him or after Him
4. 2 Sam 7:22 there is none like Him
Repeat the words of Jesus to yourself over and over...
This is the first and great commandment: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." ... "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me."
I beg of you, please do not put a band-aid over a pricked heart. You are not guaranteed tomorrow. Join yourself with the body of Christ, God's household, starting with a born again experience as recorded in Acts 2 and taught by the Apostles. THE FOUNDATION OF THE CHURCH!!
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ."
"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:03 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,952,217 times
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Wow, you wrote all that all by yourSELF?
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:35 PM
 
69 posts, read 140,969 times
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Jesus established a church, which Peter (and Paul) started, that grew into the Catholic Church that we have today. The church had a hierarchy from the beginning and was already well defined by the beginning of the second century according to the Early Church Fathers. Quoting Ignatius, third Bishop of Antioch, who was a disciple of the Apostle John, in his Letter to the Smyrneans in 107 AD:

"See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid".


"Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear."
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,420,357 times
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The Church went to hell in a handbasket, shortly after the death of those who walked with Christ.
It's only through the Spirit of truth, that truth is revealed; not by and through the doctrines of Men.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:39 PM
 
296 posts, read 238,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
The Church went to hell in a handbasket, shortly after the death of those who walked with Christ.
It's only through the Spirit of truth, that truth is revealed; not by and through the doctrines of Men.
Wow, you actually have a post more than one line!

Be specific. How did it happen, Jer?
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:50 PM
 
10,077 posts, read 4,999,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
The Church went to hell in a handbasket, shortly after the death of those who walked with Christ.
It's only through the Spirit of truth, that truth is revealed; not by and through the doctrines of Men.
And the ^ above ^ is just as gospel writer Luke wrote at Acts 20 vs 29,30 that after my [ Paul ] going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock [ of God ] with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.

- 2nd Thess. 2 vs 2-8 mentions that the apostasy would come first, and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of perdition [ destruction ] who sits himself in the ' temple ' [ houses of worship ] as if he is God when in reality corrupted clergy, men of the cloth, are really anti-God.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:53 PM
 
10,077 posts, read 4,999,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
... without self-control, nothing would exist.
Jesus too advocated self-control because Jesus NEW commandment advocated having a self-sacrificing love for others.

- John 13 vs 34,35; 15 vs 12,13
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,420,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel A. Pettinicchio View Post
Wow, you actually have a post more than one line!
It only takes a few words to speak the truth.

Quote:
Be specific. How did it happen, Jer?
Search the darkest periods of the Church and its history, which are known to man; and you will find your answer.



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Old 04-06-2014, 06:07 PM
 
296 posts, read 238,958 times
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I want you to tell me. Just share it, so I and others can try to understand where your coming from.
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