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Also you must let the bible interpret the bible. If one takes the time to search for the meaning it is all there.
This is an example of a non sequitur. The bible in and of itself is just letters printed on sheets of paper; consequently, it can't interpret itself. Only persons who can read the language the bible is printed in can interpret the bible. Expecting the bible to interpret itself is like expecting a rock to interpret itself: they're both inanimate objects, incapable of interpreting themselves.
Don't you understand how interpretation is inherent in your second sentence? "search for meaning", is, in and of itself an act of interpretation.
The first thing was tithing, I couldn't line up all I had ever heard preached about it and what the Bible said and come out with the conclusion that I should be tithing and giving my 10%.
Dear Lisa, tithing is under the law of Moses. We are not under law but under grace. We give out of love and to make sure those who teach us are cared for. Paul said to not muzzle the ox as it treads out the grain as an example to take care of those overseeing the church. We don't have to give 10%. We can give what we want. Some give 40% and some nothing and some a little. Love is the key here, not law. Our church never asks for money. Back in the 70's I too left the church and told God I was never going back but will still believe Christ died for me. I was so fed up with being told God is going to eternally torture people I couldn't take it any more. Then I found the truth of 1 Timothy 2:4-6; 4:10,11 etc. Wow! Now I only attend a small home church. But sometimes I do visit other churches. It is usually a disappointment.
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Second thing I read about was Pentecostal beliefs, as I was in a Pentecostal church for my whole adult life. As I read the little in the Bible about speaking in tongues I couldn't see where it was something that was still going on today. It seemed God was using it to start His church in the beginning and no one babbled, but spoke real languages. I was to the point that I ended up leaving my church. So much speaking in tongues going on there and 1 Cor. 14 says don't speak in tongues without an interpreter, I felt I had to leave.
Some of my Pentacostal brothers and sisters are dearly beloved to me but you are absolutely correct about speaking in tongues.
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Then came the questioning if the Bible is even God's word and if it is what is the right way to believe it? There are so many different denominations and each one has it's own beliefs, I feel like there is no way to know which way is right. It grew to questioning religion altogether. Every society has one and they all say there's is the only way. I wonder if I grew up in India would I be a Hindu right now? Probably, what about Iraq I would probably be a Muslim. So I don't even know Christianity is the "right" religion and if it is how do I follow it with my whole heart knowing I can easily be deceived by the Bible and those preaching it.
Please don't take a couple churches and base their beliefs as to if the Bible is to be believed or not. The main glue that holds all believers together is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for our sins. No other religion has this. All religions tell you what you must do. Christianity tells us what has been DONE.
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The worst part is through all of this I have felt totally abandoned by God. I have been a faithful Christian my whole adult life, being very active in His work and church and now when I need Him he isn't there for me. No answers to prayer about what is right or which way to turn.
Thanks for listening to my long post, any advice is welcomed.
Lisa
God will never abandon you. The New Testament says if we are unfaithful, He remains faithful.
I am curious though, why you believe you are saved?
This is an example of a non sequitur. The bible in and of itself is just letters printed on sheets of paper; consequently, it can't interpret itself. Only persons who can read the language the bible is printed in can interpret the bible. Expecting the bible to interpret itself is like expecting a rock to interpret itself: they're both inanimate objects, incapable of interpreting themselves.
Don't you understand how interpretation is inherent in your second sentence? "search for meaning", is, in and of itself an act of interpretation.
A rock does not contain the information from other writers to use to understand what is being conveyed. To learn what Paul is speaking of when he references the "law" one must refer to the writings of Moses within the bible to understand what the "law" is. When a writer say's "this was done so the prophet ________ would be fulfilled" one must read what that prophet said in order to understand it. A rock conveys no spiritual information in the first place.
Seriously? Because some of the parables seem entirely implausible. Since it's the subject of a current film, and one of the most well-known, I'll use Noah an example:
Genesis 9:28-29: "Now Noah lived 350 years after the flood. So Noah's life lasted 950 years; then he died."
This is simply implausible based on any and all evidence. Individual persons are simply incapable of living for 950 years; it's physically and biologically impossible.
The longest verified lifespan was that of Jeanne Calment, who died at the age of 122 in 1997. Also consider that the human maximum lifespan has been modestly, but consistently increasing for the last several decades. If Noah were a real person he lived several thousand years ago so it's very likely the maximum lifespan was significantly lower.
I'm not stating that there's no value in Noah's story, but to believe he literally lived to 950 is just plain silly. It's just as silly as believing that ancient extraterrestrial souls inhabit those of us who are living.
You must learn to understand the difference between an account of something and a parable. They are totally different. A parable is usually a fictional story used to illustrate a point. While the actual events in the parable may or may not have happened, the moral of the story is the point. Whereas an account of an event is given to detail what actually happened.
Can you prove that Noah did not live to that age? Of course you can't. You are basing your logic on what is assumed as correct knowledge of today's man. This is something you cannot prove one way or another unless you were there. No need to argue it.
This is an example of a non sequitur. The bible in and of itself is just letters printed on sheets of paper; consequently, it can't interpret itself. Only persons who can read the language the bible is printed in can interpret the bible. Expecting the bible to interpret itself is like expecting a rock to interpret itself: they're both inanimate objects, incapable of interpreting themselves.
Don't you understand how interpretation is inherent in your second sentence? "search for meaning", is, in and of itself an act of interpretation.
Sorry but the Bible interprets itself. Just start reading on the same subject/verse and use aids if you can't read Hebrew or Greek (I can read Koine Greek) and you will see it. Man's efforts are what foul it up.
A rock does not contain the information from other writers to use to understand what is being conveyed. To learn what Paul is speaking of when he references the "law" one must refer to the writings of Moses within the bible to understand what the "law" is. When a writer say's "this was done so the prophet ________ would be fulfilled" one must read what that prophet said in order to understand it. A rock conveys no spiritual information in the first place.
A rock might not contain information that is perceived as directly spiritual, but it does contain information. Geologists can examine a rock and derive much information from it. This is similar to reading the bible, or any other letters that form words.
My point is that if someone who only knows how to read Arabic he/she is incapable of reading a bible printed in English. Consequently, he/she is incapable of deriving it's meaning, at least in any sort of direct way. This would be like me trying to derive meaning from book written in Arabic; I'd don't know how to read Arabic, so even if it's the most important book ever, I would be incapable of understanding it.
A book is incapable of interpreting itself: we humans are the ones who do the interpreting.
Thanks for the reply, you know I never thought of myself as a fundamentalist. Although I can kind of see now that I was to a degree. I know that some might not need to know the truth, but I feel like I do. Either there is a God or there isn't, either Christianity is real or it isn't. I don't think I could settle for less than that. Maybe it's my fundamentalist coming out. Is there something between the two because I definitely don't want to be an atheist because I think there must be some kind of God who put this whole thing together and I don't want to be a fundamentalist either. By the way, i agree with your assessment of magic and mythology, after I left the church it seemed like so much that I was taught fell into the category of mysticism, like say the wrong thing and something bad will happen to you kind of stuff.
Here is where Atheists and fundamentalists are very much alike. The atheist is 100% certain there is no God and the fundamentalist is 100% certain there is a God. Both parties claim to know the absolute truth. To claim to have absolute truth with regards to God is foolish, no one can do that.
Atheists look at reason and facts whereas fundamentalists are into the mythology and the magic of religion. Both sides are equally fanatic about their belief system.
I already struggled with the things you struggle now. In the end we cannot prove God's existence or non-existence. We must have some faith and that faith can work along intellect and reason if done correctly.
Just pick a religion that is not anal or fanatical and enjoy what it has to offer. Do not concern yourself with knowing the absolute truth because that is IMPOSSIBLE.
Every church has agnostics on the pews and they do just fine.
Sorry but the Bible interprets itself. Just start reading on the same subject/verse and use aids if you can't read Hebrew or Greek (I can read Koine Greek) and you will see it. Man's efforts are what foul it up.
No, the bible is an inanimate object. Reading something in and of itself is a form of interpretation. If you just stare at a closed bible, expecting it to interpret itself for you, it won't because it's incapable of doing so.
No, the bible is an inanimate object. Reading something in and of itself is a form of interpretation. If you just stare at a closed bible, expecting it to interpret itself for you, it won't because it's incapable of doing so.
He is using a figure of speech. It's like when we say "The Bible speaks to me." We know it really doesn't speak. It didn't grow a mouth with a voice box and tongue and lips.
Here is where Atheists and fundamentalists are very much alike. The atheist is 100% certain there is no God and the fundamentalist is 100% certain there is a God. Both parties claim to know the absolute truth. To claim to have absolute truth with regards to God is foolish, no one can do that.
Atheists look at reason and facts whereas fundamentalists are into the mythology and the magic of religion. Both sides are equally fanatic about their belief system.
Yea, well, we have an empty tomb. Christ didn't rise from the dead by magic.
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In the end we cannot prove God's existence or non-existence.
Nothing like making contradictory statements.
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We must have some faith and that faith can work along intellect and reason if done correctly.
Just pick a religion that is not anal or fanatical and enjoy what it has to offer. Do not concern yourself with knowing the absolute truth because that is IMPOSSIBLE.
Every church has agnostics on the pews and they do just fine.
Atheists can't possibly absolutely know there is no God.
It is an absolute truth Christ died for our sins, was entombed and rose from the dead.
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