Why are so many posters here obsessed with Catholicism? (Gospel, Mormons, doctrine)
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Actually, quite similar to the current teachings of the Catholic Church. Although I'm sure many Protestants will argue with me on that and try to educate me as to what my Church is really about.
All the Catholics I know seem to be very "live and let live". There are definitaly some who will argue that the rest of Christianity is very wrong, but overall, I don't get that vibe from Catholics. My observation is that it's Protestant fundamentalists who are mostly the people who think they're 100% correct in their views, but I think that would be the same with "fundamentalists" of any denomination or religion. Mainline Protestants (Episcopals, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians) tend to be the least rigid in their views. Notice I say "tend". There are exceptions to all my observations.
I really care nothing about Catholicism one way or the other, but it is at least "interesting" to me because (1) it purports to be the true, original Christian church (the Eastern Orthodox being the other claimant), yet (2) its major tenets -- the existence of the papacy, the infallibility of the papacy, and the veneration of Mary (and all the sub-doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception) -- are either highly suspect or entirely without foundation. The veneration of Mary as the Mother of God, when she clearly was a bit player in the Bible and First Century Christianity, is especially interesting to me. (Someone famously said that Latin American Catholicism boils down to "There is no God, but Mary is His mother.") There seems to be such an obvious psychological basis for the veneration of Mary that it is quite interesting to me that this has somehow been absorbed into what purports to be mainstream Christianity.
I find Mormonism interesting as well, not because I'm a fundamentalist loony -- I'm light years from it -- but because the capacity of sincere, intelligent people to cling to beliefs that are so obviously Not True never ceases to amaze me. I don't mean Not True in the way that an atheist believes that the existence of God (regardless of how you may conceive him/her/it) is Not True, but ontologically Not True. The elevation of Mary to Mother of God status was obviously, ontologically not part of Jesus' worldview or the worldview of First Century Christians and is not even hinted at in the Bible, yet we find it as the predominate doctrine of what purports to be the one true church. The history of the Americas as set forth in the Book of Mormon is demonstrably, ontologically not true, yet millions of Mormons are somehow able to overlook this fact. I simply find this weird, interesting, and at least worthy of discussion.
I can understand where the foaming-at-the-mouth attackers of Catholicism and Mormonism are coming from because (1) despite the fact that the Catholics and Mormons may be wonderful people and may do more good in the world than most other denominations, their beliefs are undeniably "unbiblical," and being biblical is the sine qua non of Christianity to most of the attackers (and, indeed, to most Protestants), and (2) from a fundamentalist perspective, a "counterfeit Christian" church is likely to be viewed as much more dangerous and much more a "tool of Satan" than is an obviously non-Christian religion. So I can certainly see why the attackers focus on the Catholic and LDS churches, with the Jehovah's Witnesses being the other major target. My focus is not in the nature of an attack, because I really don't care what anyone else believes, but more in the nature of puzzlement as to how people manage to cling to beliefs that are so internally inconsistent. Whether or not one is a fundamentalist, it does seem to me that the New Testament paints a pretty clear picture of what Christianity is all about -- yet Catholics and Mormons cling to (and, indeed, emphasize) doctrines that are obviously, ontologically not part of that picture. The Catholics, of course, cover this base by saying that Christianity is found not just in the Bible but in history, tradition and extra-biblical teachings as well, but something like the veneration of Mary is so far afield that it strikes me as inconsistent with anything that can reasonably be called "Christianity."
A non-believer might say that all of the above is equally true of Christianity (or even deism) in general -- i.e., some or all of it is obviously, ontologically Not True and even the mainstream doctrines are illogical and internally inconsistent. I have satisfied myself that this is not correct. Christianity is not Obviously True, but its historical basis is defensible and its mainstream doctrines are intelligible. I don't feel compelled to accept every doctrine -- which is why I'm a one-person denomination of my very own -- but I could not possibly function in a church, such as the Catholic or LDS church, where the core doctrines seemed to me so obviously off-base.
I really care nothing about Catholicism one way or the other, but it is at least "interesting" to me because (1) it purports to be the true, original Christian church (the Eastern Orthodox being the other claimant), yet (2) its major tenets -- the existence of the papacy, the infallibility of the papacy, and the veneration of Mary (and all the sub-doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception) -- are either highly suspect or entirely without foundation. The veneration of Mary as the Mother of God, when she clearly was a bit player in the Bible and First Century Christianity, is especially interesting to me. (Someone famously said that Latin American Catholicism boils down to "There is no God, but Mary is His mother.") There seems to be such an obvious psychological basis for the veneration of Mary that it is quite interesting to me that this has somehow been absorbed into what purports to be mainstream Christianity.
I find Mormonism interesting as well, not because I'm a fundamentalist loony -- I'm light years from it -- but because the capacity of sincere, intelligent people to cling to beliefs that are so obviously Not True never ceases to amaze me. I don't mean Not True in the way that an atheist believes that the existence of God (regardless of how you may conceive him/her/it) is Not True, but ontologically Not True. The elevation of Mary to Mother of God status was obviously, ontologically not part of Jesus' worldview or the worldview of First Century Christians and is not even hinted at in the Bible, yet we find it as the predominate doctrine of what purports to be the one true church. The history of the Americas as set forth in the Book of Mormon is demonstrably, ontologically not true, yet millions of Mormons are somehow able to overlook this fact. I simply find this weird, interesting, and at least worthy of discussion.
I can understand where the foaming-at-the-mouth attackers of Catholicism and Mormonism are coming from because (1) despite the fact that the Catholics and Mormons may be wonderful people and may do more good in the world than most other denominations, their beliefs are undeniably "unbiblical," and being biblical is the sine qua non of Christianity to most of the attackers (and, indeed, to most Protestants), and (2) from a fundamentalist perspective, a "counterfeit Christian" church is likely to be viewed as much more dangerous and much more a "tool of Satan" than is an obviously non-Christian religion. So I can certainly see why the attackers focus on the Catholic and LDS churches, with the Jehovah's Witnesses being the other major target. My focus is not in the nature of an attack, because I really don't care what anyone else believes, but more in the nature of puzzlement as to how people manage to cling to beliefs that are so internally inconsistent. Whether or not one is a fundamentalist, it does seem to me that the New Testament paints a pretty clear picture of what Christianity is all about -- yet Catholics and Mormons cling to (and, indeed, emphasize) doctrines that are obviously, ontologically not part of that picture. The Catholics, of course, cover this base by saying that Christianity is found not just in the Bible but in history, tradition and extra-biblical teachings as well, but something like the veneration of Mary is so far afield that it strikes me as inconsistent with anything that can reasonably be called "Christianity."
A non-believer might say that all of the above is equally true of Christianity (or even deism) in general -- i.e., some or all of it is obviously, ontologically Not True and even the mainstream doctrines are illogical and internally inconsistent. I have satisfied myself that this is not correct. Christianity is not Obviously True, but its historical basis is defensible and its mainstream doctrines are intelligible. I don't feel compelled to accept every doctrine -- which is why I'm a one-person denomination of my very own -- but I could not possibly function in a church, such as the Catholic or LDS church, where the core doctrines seemed to me so obviously off-base.
If you were able to look at religion as religion then you would have a more open mind.
Within religion everything is possible, that is why it is called religion.
Christians also have wacky beliefs such as claiming men lived to be over 900 years six thousand years ago.
No religion has absolute truth. The bible has no absolute truth either as it was written by men.
Have you ever been to a Catholic mass? There is never any talk about papal infallibility. There is no formal prayer to Mary in the mass. The mass is ALL about Christ. The veneration of Mary is side show. I for one, have never prayed to Mary, but some folks do. Who cares? What is the big deal? This is religion!
The scary ones are the folks WHO THINK they have the truth. That is very SCARY and bizarre. I stay away from people like that. The give me the "willy Jeeveves:.
The scary ones are the folks WHO THINK they have the truth. That is very SCARY and bizarre. I stay away from people like that. The give me the "willy Jeeveves:.
Agreed!
Christians, and many non-Christians, believe in souls/spirits, guardian Angels, etc. I'll admit to having "conversations" in my head asking for guidance from my grandparents who have passed on, and plenty of people believe in this. (Many don't and will think I'm Satan for trying doing this) So I've always wondered if the soul/spirit of Mary is just overburdened with humans asking for help/guidance?
Christians, and many non-Christians, believe in souls/spirits, guardian Angels, etc. I'll admit to having "conversations" in my head asking for guidance from my grandparents who have passed on, and plenty of people believe in this. (Many don't and will think I'm Satan for trying doing this) So I've always wondered if the soul/spirit of Mary is just overburdened with humans asking for help/guidance?
A prayer to Mary is a great prayer because God hears the prayer and God is not offended that the person asked Mary instead of Jesus. God knows the heart of all planet citizens form instant to instant.
Virgin Mary statues are beautiful, she brings the female side into religion.
lol! I just generalized. There are many exceptions, I know.
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Although I'm sure many Protestants will argue with me on that and try to educate me as to what my Church is really about.
) So I've always wondered if the soul/spirit of Mary is just overburdened with humans asking for help/guidance?
