Love is incompatible with eternal torture (purification, messages, Deuteronomy, judgement)
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God is Love . God is a consuming fire take your pick . He loves everyone Jews Islamic, witches, spiritualists ,atheists,
agnostics, even we gentile strange cats. If on the other hand you don't obey Him your toast material. Choose!
God never, as fire, consumes the individual but the dross within them and purifies them.
Your last sentence is not in accord with the present administration of grace. It is not about what we do or do not do but about what Christ has done which saves us.
God is love and a consuming fire. One is not exclusive of the other. God's pure and perfect love is incompatible with eternal torture.
Love is patient, is kind. Love is not jealous. Love is not bragging, is not puffed up, is not indecent, is not
self-seeking, is not incensed, is not taking account of evil, is not rejoicing in injustice, yet is rejoicing
together with the truth, is forgoing all, is believing all, is expecting all, is enduring all." Love is never
lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it
will be discarded." (1Co 13:4-8)
How can eternal torture be compatible with love? Since love never gives up on anyone and always seeks the highest for the person.
Your god's word doesn't seem to very clear cut, as each day someone comes to the forum asking for clarification. It looks like a lot of poetic license has gone into the writing, and rewriting of this book. If the Bible is truly god's word, why is it being altered? Why wouldn't you want to learn about god's word in it's original text?
IMHO, it would seem that if you assume that because God is love, there is no eternal punishment, then in reality you are on the path to atheism. Why? Well, if someone assumes that, then the next question is, why, If God is love, why does he allow suffering and death in the world today? This has led others to say that there is no god, because a loving god would not allow all the suffering and injustice in the world. So there must be no god at all.
I don't assume God is love, I know for a fact God is love. And that is true that if God is love there cannot be eternal punishment. I've been on this higher path since the 70's and am stronger in my faith than ever.
God doesn't just allow suffering and death. It is all part of the knowledge of good and evil which mankind must learn.
Your god's word doesn't seem to very clear cut, as each day someone comes to the forum asking for clarification. It looks like a lot of poetic license has gone into the writing, and rewriting of this book. If the Bible is truly god's word, why is it being altered? Why wouldn't you want to learn about god's word in it's original text?
It is clear to those who have had their eyes and hearts opened. But there are poor translations out there which make things very foggy.
Why is it being altered? God told us in subsequent eras that some would withdraw from the faith and give heed to doctrines of demons.
The three most ancient uncial Greek manuscripts are are very good.
God never, as fire, consumes the individual but the dross within them and purifies them.
Your last sentence is not in accord with the present administration of grace. It is not about what we do or do not do but about what Christ has done which saves us.
God is love and a consuming fire. One is not exclusive of the other. God's pure and perfect love is incompatible with eternal torture.
No eternal torture but eternal annihilation for those who reject God does exist. Love requires that as well.
No eternal torture but eternal annihilation for those who reject God does exist. Love requires that as well.
Eternal annihilation is not in harmony with God saving all mankind as He said He will in 1 Timothy 2:4-6. Though annihilation is kinder than eternal torture, it is still wrong.
Your god's word doesn't seem to very clear cut, as each day someone comes to the forum asking for clarification. It looks like a lot of poetic license has gone into the writing, and rewriting of this book. If the Bible is truly god's word, why is it being altered? Why wouldn't you want to learn about god's word in it's original text?
People ask for clarification because some posters come up with stuff which is simply not from the Bible. They create their own religion, which evolves as they try to explain it.
People ask for clarification because some posters come up with stuff which is simply not from the Bible. They create their own religion, which evolves as they try to explain it.
Yes, some posters do come up with stuff which is simply not from the Bible, don't they . . . Finn.
As I see it, I am not in oppositional pov of Jesus' statements - I'm only in opposition to the majority interpretation of those statements. We've been over those statements in other threads, so I won't rehash it all (unless you want me to explain one or each of these specific verses today).
Let me give you a quick example.
Setting aside the eon/age/eternal argumentation, examine the statement: "Bob will be thrown into eternal fire". Even from this, we do not know what happens to Bob after he is thrown in. Maybe he stays in there forever being tortured forever. Maybe he is burned up to never live again. Maybe the fire is of a different nature (spritual? refining? metaphor?) that enacts some change on Bob.
Regardless the fact that it says eternal fire does not indicate the duration Bob is in the fire. It only describes the nature of the fire itself. You must be aware that many who believe in annihilation understand Matt 25 in this manner.
So to incessantly quote Matt 25:41 as proof that Jesus favored eternal torture for the goats is no proof at all, because it cannot be determined from that verse. Especially when the case can be made otherwise for fire being refining, the gates of the city always being open, anyone can drink from the water of life freely, God ultimately being all in all, etc, etc, etc...)
Let me give you an example of why (even though you do not think you do) are in oppositional pov of Jesus' statements:
*** Setting aside the eon/age/eternal argumentation, examine the statements:
"whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them".
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
How can we know that Matt 25:41 as proof that Jesus favored eternal torture for the goats?
Answer:
Matthew 25:46
Revelation 14:10-11
Jude 1:7
1 Chronicles 28:9
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