What happens after death, Let's discuss Heaven and Hell!!! (pray, sinners, Jesus)
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Can someone who believes in eternal hellfire and damnation please give me their opinion concerning Adam`s all and Jesus`s all that I posted earlier?When Jesus says he is the savior of all men,why you don`t believe that? John 12:32 Jesus said...If I be lifted up from the earth,will draw all men unto me. How many men..all. Did he say some will be drawn to me..no..he said all. All is all no matter how you slice it,dice it, splice it, or ice it. God has gone out of his way in the scripture to tell us that Jesus is the saviour of all men. That is how much he loves us. We just want to believe that somehow we can of our own free will circumvent God`s plan. We just can`t admit that we don`t have free will in this matter. We think we have to have it our way. Thank God we don`t. Because if we had it our way we would all be going to hell in a fairly sized handbasket. We only come to God because he opens our eyes to his truth. We don`t open our own eyes. The bible makes it clear that man left to his own devices or free will would never choose God. Oh, we like to think that we are more discerning than our neighbor. We found God and if only our friend was as smart as we are or as discerning as we are or could open his eyes like we have..we ,we we. We haven`t done anything. We don`t deserve anything. God is the one who opens eyes and hearts. The bible says that none seeketh after God. God does the seeking He does the seeking,saving,and sactifying and somehow we want to take partial credit. Well, yes, Jesus died on the cross but I had to be discerning enough to accept it..blah blah blah. You did nothing but turn away from God just like me and everyone else. That`s why He sent his son to be brutally beaten and killed because he loved us that much. He knew we didn`t want him and we would be separated from him left to our free will. We wouldn`t know or accept the truth because we were blinded by our own sinful ways. The only way we could know and understand the truth is if he supernaturally opened our eyes to it. That is what he wants to do and once he has then we can see his love for us and we long to be with him. That is the only way. He has to do it or it won`t be done. By the way,this isn`t meant for anyone in particular..I was ranting..with love of course! O.K. ? Alright I`m done..love ya
I'll give it a hand
But are we going to deal with the other issue that you posted about
the age children should be held accountable???
I mean I haven't fully convalesed, yet. i just said "today i was feeling better"
But you are really working me here; "Whew"............Geesh!! I'm not a theologian you know
I'll have to pass up this one until later.. I'm surprised the Ministers haven't chimed in yet
I mean they started this...
You don't think that they're enjoying some Christmas party" and have left us here to fend for ourselves))))))) HAAAAAA!
If anyone takes me serious on this post__they are "Grinches and Grinchettes" (jibberish out of love)
God Bless Everyone
The argument by atheists that there is no Heaven or Hell is such a strange one to me. I mean, seriously, what do you have to lose by believing? Nothing, but wow, think of what you could lose if you don't--and then you find out it's all true. That's a pretty big bet on your part. Sure hope for your sake that you're right. As for me, I'll just keep my head in the clouds and live for the hereafter.
I'd like to address this because I hear it all the time. What do I have to lose by believing? What if I'm wrong?
What if you're wrong, Mom2Feebs? I'm not just talking about there not being a God, but I'm talking about there being a God that is one you haven't worshipped as specifically described in that Gods' word? What if Allah is real and you haven't been praying as prescribed by the Koran? What if Thor was real? What if the Mayan God of rain (Chaac) was real and you haven't performed your ritual sacrifices? Zeus? Odin? Shiva? Ra? Baal? Or the other estimated 5000 gods that man has worshipped? I mean, what does it hurt to believe in all these Gods? By using your logic we should believe in all of them just to be on the safe side, right? We have nothing to lose, RIGHT?! You and I are just as equally "up a creek without a paddle" if the Christian God does not exist, that is of course, unless there's some God that doesn't hold a grudge for not believing and he's the one who exists, in which case, I have nothing to fear anyway.
Just as simply, I am an atheist for the same reasons you are to all other Gods I just take it one God further. Furthermore, only presenting the argument that "What would it hurt to believe in the Christian God" is odd to me, because if we were in Kuwait you'd probably be talking about Allah. If we were in ancient Greece you may be posing the question why it wouldn't hurt to believe in Zeus. Or, perhaps in Ancient Egypt you'd be asking me what do I have to lose by believing in Ra. Historically, and geographically, you live in a place and era that by and large believes in the Christian God, therefore it's the one you are most likely to accept as real.
Anyway, to stay on topic, sorry if I rambled, my idea of what happens after death is the same exact feeling of what it was like before I was born. That was a very scary time wasn't it?
Another question I always asked is this...What is the age of accountability..9..10..11..12? Let`s say it is 10. A child dies at the ripe old age of 11. He doesn`t say the sinners prayer. Do you truly believe in your heart of hearts that he will spend forever and ever in a literal hellfire burning with fire and brimstone and tormented day and night without end? That he will be forever separated from the love of God for all of eternity? Do you truly believe that he will suffer forever without end for sins that he committed during that one year on earth where he was held accountable? Just asking..of course I`m asking with love. Just trying to understand how someone reconsile`s that. Thanks
And....just to complicate the matter....let's just say, for the sake of this discussion, that it is the age of 10. And somewhere, someone who is 80 dies, but he has been mentally retarded all his life. Let's say he had an I.Q. of "40", and was roughly the equivalent of a 6-yr old child mentally, even though his body was 80 years old. The concept of being "lost or saved" is beyond his mental capacity. Are you gonna toss him into hell?
Hi, if you believe that hell is eternal, do you believe that it has always existed without beginning or end? Do you believe that all who are consigned there will be enemies of God forever throughout eternity? Do you believe that sin will exist for all of eternity? Just asking. God bless.
1: Hell was created for the devil and his angels. If it was created, it had to have a beginning. But...it has no end. Therefore the answer is "no...and yes"
2: Yes. They are incorrigable...will not, or can not, change their ways...
3: I don't know. But I tend to think "yes", but confined to hell...
And....just to complicate the matter....let's just say, for the sake of this discussion, that it is the age of 10. And somewhere, someone who is 80 dies, but he has been mentally retarded all his life. Let's say he had an I.Q. of "40", and was roughly the equivalent of a 6-yr old child mentally, even though his body was 80 years old. The concept of being "lost or saved" is beyond his mental capacity. Are you gonna toss him into hell?
Bud
Not so fast Bud
Here's a link that has your answer, but you have to read all the way down towards the middle. http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
Rep time for you!!!!!
( I've had the dust blown off of my repper!!)
Quote: Bud
Let's say he had an I.Q. of "40", and was roughly the equivalent of a 6-yr old child mentally, even though his body was 80 years old.
Quote: yhwhshalomjr
Sounds like an ex of mine!!
Originally Posted by spm62 My trick is to only want the things I truly need.
I guess I don't need to be financially rich or secure to be happy. The only aim that I have left in life is to die the way that I've lived; content.
My aim is to be like tricky..content in what I have.
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7:13-14
"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Matt 22:13-14
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
Luke 13:22-24
How many people were saved in the flood?
The decisions we make as humans are no reflection on God's success or failure. Tying God's greatness and success to us is man-centered.
EDIT: I'd just like to add, please read and reread that last set of scripture. You see that Jesus was SPECIFICALLY ASKED "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
And....just to complicate the matter....let's just say, for the sake of this discussion, that it is the age of 10. And somewhere, someone who is 80 dies, but he has been mentally retarded all his life. Let's say he had an I.Q. of "40", and was roughly the equivalent of a 6-yr old child mentally, even though his body was 80 years old. The concept of being "lost or saved" is beyond his mental capacity. Are you gonna toss him into hell?
Bud
I certainly hope not! Let`s complicate it even further. Let`s say the 80 year old was mentally sharp but chose to live a wordly life all of those years but prayed the sinners prayer on his death bed. He goes to paradise to live with God forever but the child who lived with one year of accountability goes into eternal hellfire and damnation forever....huh?
Okay spm62
Maybe this should have been a thread of it's on, because of the complexity of it.
This made it less complex for me; i read through these scriptures and this is my conclusion 29 in this wilderness do your carcases fall, even all your numbered ones, to all your number, from a son of twenty years and upward, who have murmured against Me; YLT Numbers 14:29 29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me, 30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun. 31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised. Num 14:29-32 (KJV) Num 14:29 (YLT)
THE MURMURERS FORBIDDEN TO ENTER THE PROMISED LAND. 14:20-35
The Lord granted the prayer of Moses so far as not at once to destroy the congregation. But disbelief of the promise forbids the benefit. Those who despise the pleasant land shall be shut out of it. The promise of God should be fulfilled to their children. They wished to die in the wilderness; God made their sin their ruin, took them at their word, and their carcases fell in the wilderness. They were made to groan under the burden of their own sin, which was too heavy for them to bear. Ye shall know my breach of promise, both the causes of it, that it is procured by your sin, for God never leaves any till they first leave him; and the consequences of it, that will produce your ruin. But your little ones, now under twenty years old, which ye, in your unbelief, said should be a prey, them will I bring in. God will let them know that he can put a difference between the guilty and the innocent, and cut them off without touching their children. Thus God would not utterly take away his loving kindness.
—Matthew Henry Concise
This is the definition of a child according to the Bible.
So it sounds like the age is 20 according to this passage of scripture, even if one younger child wanted to accept Christ as their personal saviour, that sounds like it would be "a good plan". also. I believe for salvation God bar none. Also IMO God will not hold children responsible under this age, for eternal judgement and damnation via "lake of fire" that is.
Another passage is
38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it. 39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. 40 But as for you, turn you, and take your journey into the wilderness by the way of the Red sea.
Deut 1:38-40 (KJV)
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Isaiah 7:15-16 (KJV)
This is my take on it.
God Bless You
I think you`re missing my point. The point really isn`t what the age of accountability is. It`s more of someone being thrown into the lake of fire forever when they hardly had a chance to believe.
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown Hi, if you believe that hell is eternal, do you believe that it has always existed without beginning or end? Do you believe that all who are consigned there will be enemies of God forever throughout eternity? Do you believe that sin will exist for all of eternity? Just asking. God bless.
Quote:
1: Hell was created for the devil and his angels. If it was created, it had to have a beginning. But...it has no end. Therefore the answer is "no...and yes"
So maybe if someone believes that hell will last forever you might say that it is everlasting hell. Eternity to me means having no beginning or end, but I think that those who believe in forever hell are really meaning everlasting hell.
Quote:
2: Yes. They are incorrigable...will not, or can not, change their ways...
How is then that the Lord Jesus will subject all to Himself and abolish all rule, power, and authority, including the power of sin which enslaves those who are lost according to the scriptures? Why do you say that they are incorrigible, Bud? Is anything too hard for God?
Quote:
3: I don't know. But I tend to think "yes", but confined to hell...
How can this be if Jesus is to abolish all rule, power, and authority (except the Fathers)? Thanks and God bless.
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, yet. i just said "today i was feeling better"
(jibberish out of love)
