Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have a family member who believes that (according to 1TIMOTHY5:8) that I am responsible for supporting other family members who willing live in an irresponsible manner.
A little background:
I'm the youngest in a family of 5. I was the first to leave home and get my own place. That was 20 years ago and I've never been back. During these past 20 years, I can count on 1 HAND how many times anyone has called to see if "little sister" needed anything. But that's fine, because I've always been pretty independant. The issue I have is that 2 of my immediate family members seem to always be in some kind of financial crisis or their lives are in disarray in some other way, and I am treated like I'm a bad Christian if I don't bail them out. 99% of the problems that they have are caused by poor money management, refusal to live within their means or not keeping a job.
When I decided that I wasn't going to shell out one more dime or take responsibility for children who should be raised by their own parents, I was beaten over the head with 1 TIM 5:8 that says....
" But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
They claim that it's my responsibility as a Christian to "be there for them" even though they have no intention of ever making the changes needed to improve their situations (i.e. Stop incurring debt when you can't pay the bills that you already have.... Raise your own children and stop dropping them off at other people's houses to raise... Get a job... or at least use your government check to pay for things that are actually necessary, like feeding your child and paying your rent.)
In conclusion: As the youngest member of the family, does 1TIM 5:8 require that I shoulder the responsibilities of a bunch of GROWN men and women just because I've been able to keep my head above water (barely) and not make 50 bad decisions everyday for the past 20 years? Does that scripture mean that I have to carry their burdens just because we come from the same flesh?
May I have a response from someone who's a mature Christian? Somone who can put that verse in the proper context? ... because I feel like they are using that scripture in a manipulative manner.
Me, if they were trying to manipulate me with that verse, wwould respond with Mark 3: 31Then His mother and His brothers arrived, and standing outside they sent word to Him and called Him. 32A crowd was sitting around Him, and they said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You.” 33Answering them, He said, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” 34Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 35“For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother.”
If these people are disabled and Doctors say they cannot work than helping them financial would be a seed to Jesus which would be a point of Contact to Jesus and His blessing to bless His charity ........... If people are just lazy and expect the world to hand them everything that they want , the best thing you can do is forgive them for their incompetence and pray that Jesus will have a plan to bless them , and pray for blood of Jesus Judgment over their life ........ See these ideas are from Heaven , as Heaven is the place of charity , and charity is love
I think it helps to put this verse in context, read it entirely and see what the author's intent was.
1 TIMOTHY 5:3-9
3 Honor widows who are widows indeed; 4 but if any widow has children or grandchildren, they must first learn to practice piety in regard to their own family and to make some return to their parents; for this is acceptable in the sight of God. 5 Now she who is a widow indeed and who has been left alone, has fixed her hope on God and continues in entreaties and prayers night and day. 6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives. 7 Prescribe these things as well, so that they may be above reproach. 8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,[a] 10 and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. 11 But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry 12 and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith. 13 Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not. 14 So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and give the adversary no occasion for slander. 15 For some have already strayed after Satan. 16 If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows.
Verses 3-16 are instructions to the Church regarding widows and the need for continuing community support for them. These verses are divided into identifying the honorable widow, family responsibility for the widow, and finally the young widow.
17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality. 22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure. 23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.) 24 The sins of some people are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later. 25 So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden.
Verses 17-25 are instructions concerning elders.
My advice, in regards to helping immediate family members;
1. Don't judge.
2. Help out of love.
3. Don't throw good money after bad. Just a you wouldn't give an alcoholic a fifth of booze, neither give someone with money management problems more money.
10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
you took the words right out of my mouth.
scoopSeeker, no, you're not responsible, from reading your post. listen, the church is to take care of widows, right. but notice what it say, 1 Timothy 5:16 "If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed".
see, every widow is not a widow indeed. as the church is not charged to widows, only to those who are widows indeed. so like wise, any family is not charged to another family member who is NOT indeed. meaning you only help, and not support. and that's only if you're in the position to help, and not support. now if a family member is unable, as in physically impairment, all, all, all, the family member "HELP", "HELP", out. notice the scripture said relieve, not support. and that relieve is not just you only.
and two, if one shows another how to fish, (manage their money), then they want be on your door step everyday looking for fish (money). let them catch, or make their own fish, (money). let them get a J O B , or live within their means. if your advice is rejected, then they are on their own. sometimes tough LOVE is just what is needed now in these days. don't be an enabler.
IMHO, if they have food and clothes and shelter, that's pretty much the end of any obligation. Their wants don't equal needs, especially if they have the financial resources but choose to blow them on stuff they don't need. You could quote back to them the scripture, "If any would not work, neither should they eat".
1 Tim. 5:2-10 is speaking primarily about taking care of widows in the church - and about men taking care of their immediate families and aging parents.
God's Word is never intended to be used to blackmail or manipulate people into financially supporting those who refuse to work or whose Godless choices and lifestyles leave them chronically in financial crisis.
From many years in street ministry, I can assure you that there are many people out there who cannot be helped by simply financing their chosen lifestyles. Giving money, for example, to addicts (with no desire to change) only enables them and leaves them more dependent on drugs and alcohol, than before. There are many other types of addiction, such as addiction to welfare or charity, that cannot be changed or resolved by simply 'throwing more money at them.' It sounds like your extended family falls into this (or a similar) category.
Your 'family' appear to be trying to use scripture for something never intended by God. Similarly, some men attempt to use "wives submit to your husbands," to control and manipulate women ... completely ignoring scripture's overriding admonition for husbands and wives to "submit one unto the other".
There are always two sides to every story, but, given the situation as you have presented it, it does not sound like anyone will be helped, as God intended, by simply 'throwing more money at this problem.'
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
