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in the book of Revelation, the Lord, JESUS, states that he is coming quickly. and in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 it states, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”.
who is coming?, God, whom one might say, or the Lord, or is it the Lord God who is coming, the same person. and just a reminder, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. for all those who say the Father and the son are not the same person, I again, beg to differ.
#1. Revelation 2:5 "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent”. to the church of Ephesus, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ. see verse 1, of this chapter and one can see that he is the “First and the Last”. because in verse 1 of this chapter, the one who holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks is the “First and the Last”, THE SON. scripture, Revelation 1:12 "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle”. now who is this Son of Man?. answer, verse17 “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last”. so we can see from scripture, the one who comes quickly is the First and the Last. now with this establish, let continue to build on the foundation Jesus Christ.
#2. Revelation 2:16 "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth”. to the church in Pergamos, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ. the same speaker, the “First and the Last,” THE SON
#3. Revelation 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown”. to the church of Philadelphia, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ, the same speaker, the “First and the Last”, THE SON
now lets see who this "Son" is, the ONE WHO IS COMING QUICKLY.
Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. it is THE SON, wait a minute, is not the FATHER the Alpha and Omega?. YES, but who is coming quickley? GOD. but who is God?. the Lord Jesus Christ in flesh. lets see, Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus”. so it’s the Lord Jesus who is coming, just as it say so in Revelation 1:7 & 8 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. so the Alpha and Omega is coming who is also the First and the Last. he who come quickley is the Lord Jesus, revelation 22:12 & 13, "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. so the Alpha and Omega, and the first and the last
, is the SAME PERSON. that just killed the “Father”, and the “Son”, and the “JESUS” have a God false doctrine. the one who is Father is the Son in Flesh and bones. the Spirit who is GOD, for God is a Spirit, and in 2 Corinthians 3:17a "Now the Lord is that Spirit”. JESUS, who is GOD is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, who hold the titles “Father”, and the title, “Son”.
This is how one put scripture together to reveal the truth. precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little, and one gets the TRUE picture.
He does, he is an ever present help in times of trouble.
and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind
He makes winds his messengers, flames of fire his servants Psalm 104
for all those who say the Father and the son are not the same person, I again, beg to differ.
Are you intending to profess a non-Trinitarian doctrine here? Because saying that "God" and Jesus are the "same person," you are professing the non-Trinitarian doctrine. Is that what you mean to do?
No, Jesus is not the same person as the Father. That's very easy to point out from scripture--it's so clear that the real problem is finding the scriptural evidence that they are connected.
In the doctrine of the Trinity there are three persons in the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We use the term "person" to describe each of the three because each displays attributes of personhood. Each has a will, speaks, loves, is self-aware, and is aware of others. Yet, the Bible teaches that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5, 18, 21, 22). Therefore, the person of the Son is not the same person as the Father. They speak to each other and have their own wills.
In God there are not three entities nor three beings. God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.
The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible, but this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere" are not found in the Bible either; but we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument
Are you intending to profess a non-Trinitarian doctrine here? Because saying that "God" and Jesus are the "same person," you are professing the non-Trinitarian doctrine. Is that what you mean to do?
No, Jesus is not the same person as the Father. That's very easy to point out from scripture--it's so clear that the real problem is finding the scriptural evidence that they are connected.
In the doctrine of the Trinity there are three persons in the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We use the term "person" to describe each of the three because each displays attributes of personhood. Each has a will, speaks, loves, is self-aware, and is aware of others. Yet, the Bible teaches that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5, 18, 21, 22). Therefore, the person of the Son is not the same person as the Father. They speak to each other and have their own wills.
In God there are not three entities nor three beings. God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.
The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible, but this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere" are not found in the Bible either; but we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument
Ralph Kirk I have one question for you, in Revelation 1:1 who sent his angel to John?. was it the Father or the son?. which one. please answer
They are different persons: Different roles, different activities, different wills. It is far easier to prove that there are different persons than to prove that they are all one in the same.
The difference in persons is stated outright--the "same substance" must be deduced, and a great many people do not accept that scripture proves the three are in some way one. I believe it's certainly a valid deduction that the three are also one, but it is a deduction nevertheless, while the difference in persons is stated outright.
"Three persons of one substance" is what scripture gives us with only one short step of deduction. To say that they are the same person requires ignoring a lot of plainly stated scripture.
The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16).
The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 15:26).
The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10).
The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26).
The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38).
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. (Luke 22:42)
Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (John 5:19)
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. (John 15:9)
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (John 16:13)
Three persons clearly deliniated within one sentence:
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26)
They are different persons: Different roles, different activities, different wills. It is far easier to prove that there are different persons than to prove that they are all one in the same.
The difference in persons is stated outright--the "same substance" must be deduced, and a great many people do not accept that scripture proves the three are in some way one. I believe it's certainly a valid deduction that the three are also one, but it is a deduction nevertheless, while the difference in persons is stated outright.
"Three persons of one substance" is what scripture gives us with only one short step of deduction. To say that they are the same person requires ignoring a lot of plainly stated scripture.
The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16).
The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 15:26).
The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10).
The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26).
The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38).
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. (Luke 22:42)
Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (John 5:19)
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. (John 15:9)
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (John 16:13)
Three persons clearly deliniated within one sentence:
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26)
Kirk, thanks for your respond, but you still did not answer my question. by answering my question, it will reveal all of your statements you just made, so again I ask who sent his angel to John please answer the question only, thanks
in the book of Revelation, the Lord, JESUS, states that he is coming quickly. and in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 it states, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”.
who is coming?, God, whom one might say, or the Lod, or is it the Lord God who is coming, the same person. and just a reminder, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. for all those who say the Father and the son are not the same person, I again, beg to differ.
#1. Revelation 2:5 "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent”. to the church of Ephesus, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ. see verse 1, of this chapter and one can see that he is the “First and the Last”. because in verse 1 of this chapter, the one who holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks is the “First and the Last”, THE SON. scripture, Revelation 1:12 "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle”. now who is this Son of Man?. answer, verse17 “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last”. so we can see from scripture, the one who comes quickly is the First and the Last. now with this establish, let continue to build on the foundation Jesus Christ.
#2. Revelation 2:16 "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth”. to the church in Pergamos, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ. the same speaker, the “First and the Last,” THE SON
#3. Revelation 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown”. to the church of Philadelphia, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ, the same speaker, the “First and the Last”, THE SON
now lets see who this "Son" is, the ONE WHO IS COMING QUICKLY.
Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. it is THE SON, wait a minute, is not the FATHER the Alpha and Omega?. YES, but who is coming quickley? GOD. but who is God?. the Lord Jesus Christ in flesh. lets see, Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus”. so it’s the Lord Jesus who is coming, just as it say so in Revelation 1:7 & 8 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. so the Alpha and Omega is coming who is also the First and the Last. he who come quickley is the Lord Jesus, revelation 22:12 & 13, "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. so the Alpha and Omega, and the first and the last
, is the SAME PERSON. that just killed the “Father”, and the “Son”, and the “JESUS” have a God false doctrine. the one who is Father is the Son in Flesh and bones. the Spirit who is GOD, for God is a Spirit, and in 2 Corinthians 3:17a "Now the Lord is that Spirit”. JESUS, who is GOD is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, who hold the titles “Father”, and the title, “Son”.
This is how one put scripture together to reveal the truth. precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little, and one gets the TRUE picture.
Now, what you say?.
Jesus Christ is God, but He is not God the Father. He is distinct from the Father. Jesus speaks of being with the Father in eternity past.
John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
As well, John makes it clear at the beginning of his gospel account that the Word (the pre-incarnate Jesus) was with God and was God. This speaks of distinction among the 'Persons' of the Godhead. Jesus is God, but He is not God the Father.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and from the Son. Romans 8:26-27 tells us that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with the Father with regard to our prayers. One who intercedes does so between two different parties and so himself is neither party. This means that the Holy Spirit is not the Father.
It also tells us that He who searches the hearts (God the Father) knows the mind of the Spirit. This further speaks of distinction within the Godhead. The Holy Spirit has a mind which is distinct from the Father's mind, and which the Father knows.
Romans 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27] and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Regarding Romans 8:26-27, the Bible Knowledge Commentary states,
The One who searches our hearts is God (1 Sam. 16:7; Heb. 4:13), and He knows (oiden, ''knows perceptively or intuitively'') the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes (entynchanei; cf. Rom. 8:26) for the saints in accordance with God's will. Even though the Spirit's words are not expressed, the Father knows what the Spirit is thinking. This is an interesting statement about the Father's omniscience and the intimacy within the Trinity. The Lord Jesus continually intercedes for believers in God's presence (v. 34; Heb. 7:25) and the Holy Spirit also intercedes on their behalf!
[The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p, 473]
That the Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ, but is distinct from Jesus is made clear by Jesus Himself by what He said as recorded in John 16:12-15.
John 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14] "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15] "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
In fact, what Jesus said in John 16:12-15 actually shows the Trinity. The Father would tell the Holy Spirit what to teach the apostles about the Son.
The doctrine of the Trinity did not come about in spite of what the Scriptures say, but because of what the Scriptures say. There is one God in three Persons. Or if the word 'Persons' bothers you, then call them three distinct centers of consciousness within the Godhead. Again, the Father knows the mind of the Spirit as per Romans 8:27.
Yes, God is triune. A tri-unity of Persons who are the one true God.
Jesus Christ is God, but He is not God the Father. He is distinct from the Father. Jesus speaks of being with the Father in eternity past.
John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
As well, John makes it clear at the beginning of his gospel account that the Word (the pre-incarnate Jesus) was with God and was God. This speaks of distinction among the 'Persons' of the Godhead. Jesus is God, but He is not God the Father.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and from the Son. Romans 8:26-27 tells us that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with the Father with regard to our prayers. One who intercedes does so between two different parties and so himself is neither party. This means that the Holy Spirit is not the Father.
It also tells us that He who searches the hearts (God the Father) knows the mind of the Spirit. This further speaks of distinction within the Godhead. The Holy Spirit has a mind which is distinct from the Father's mind, and which the Father knows.
Romans 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27] and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Regarding Romans 8:26-27, the Bible Knowledge Commentary states,
The One who searches our hearts is God (1 Sam. 16:7; Heb. 4:13), and He knows (oiden, ''knows perceptively or intuitively'') the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes (entynchanei; cf. Rom. 8:26) for the saints in accordance with God's will. Even though the Spirit's words are not expressed, the Father knows what the Spirit is thinking. This is an interesting statement about the Father's omniscience and the intimacy within the Trinity. The Lord Jesus continually intercedes for believers in God's presence (v. 34; Heb. 7:25) and the Holy Spirit also intercedes on their behalf!
[The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p, 473]
That the Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ, but is distinct from Jesus is made clear by Jesus Himself by what He said as recorded in John 16:12-15.
John 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14] "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15] "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
In fact, what Jesus said in John 16:12-15 actually shows the Trinity. The Father would tell the Holy Spirit what to teach the apostles about the Son.
The doctrine of the Trinity did not come about in spite of what the Scriptures say, but because of what the Scriptures say. There is one God in three Persons. Or if the word 'Persons' bothers you, then call them three distinct centers of consciousness within the Godhead. Again, the Father knows the mind of the Spirit as per Romans 8:27.
Yes, God is triune. A tri-unity of Persons who are the one true God.
well mike you have a problem, because, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
as we examine this scripture, it have some revealing consequence.
consequence #1. if the Father is the one God then there is no Son as God then. read it again. or unless The Lord Jesus is God also, as you my Trinitarian friends say, and if so then he is the Father. remember But to us there is but one God, and who is that?, the “FATHER”, so either Jesus Christ have to be the Father, or he is not God. read 1 Corinthians 8:6 carefully again.
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