Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Kirk, thanks for your respond, but you still did not answer my question. by answering my question, it will reveal all of your statements you just made, so again I ask who sent his angel to John please answer the question only, thanks
What are you proposing that there is?
State your proposition clearly. Are you proposing some type of Modalism? Stop being coy.
Ok let me make it very clear, the one who sent his angel is the Lord God, do you see it yet, the "Lord" God. and this is confirm in Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done”. clearly the angel said the Lord God of the Holy Prophets, which indicate the God of the Old testament, whom you call the "Father". now with that said, who is the Lord God of the old testament?, the one whom the angel said "sent his angel". scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star”. JESUS is the Lord God of the Holy Prophets who sent his angel. the one whom you call father, is JESUS. this is my POINT, there is no three person in a trinity. I believe that God is a Plurality ,not a trinity. and this Plurality is God's "diversity".
well mike you have a problem, because, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
as we examine this scripture, it have some revealing consequence.
consequence #1. if the Father is the one God then there is no Son as God then. read it again. or unless The Lord Jesus is God also, as you my Trinitarian friends say, and if so then he is the Father. remember But to us there is but one God, and who is that?, the “FATHER”, so either Jesus Christ have to be the Father, or he is not God. read 1 Corinthians 8:6 carefully again.
There is no problem. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. The Scriptures that have been shown in post #9 show the distinction between the Persons of the Godhead. In 1 Corinthians 8:6 Paul is distinguishing the one true God from the false gods and idols which are spoken of in 1 Corinthians 8:4-5.
There is one God, but Jesus (the Word) was God and was with God - John 1:1. Yet He is distinct from the Father as John 1:1 and other Scripture shows.
One Lord, but both God the Father, and Jesus Christ are Lord. Both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Yah-weh, but Jesus is Lord in that the Father has put all things in subjection under Jesus and placed Him as head over all things to the church.
Ephesians 1:22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23] which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
There is one true God in contrast with the false gods and idols, and that one true God is the triune God.
in the book of Revelation, the Lord, JESUS, states that he is coming quickly. and in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 it states, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”.
who is coming?, God, whom one might say, or the Lord, or is it the Lord God who is coming, the same person. and just a reminder, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. for all those who say the Father and the son are not the same person, I again, beg to differ.
#1. Revelation 2:5 "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent”. to the church of Ephesus, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ. see verse 1, of this chapter and one can see that he is the “First and the Last”. because in verse 1 of this chapter, the one who holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks is the “First and the Last”, THE SON. scripture, Revelation 1:12 "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle”. now who is this Son of Man?. answer, verse17 “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last”. so we can see from scripture, the one who comes quickly is the First and the Last. now with this establish, let continue to build on the foundation Jesus Christ.
#2. Revelation 2:16 "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth”. to the church in Pergamos, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ. the same speaker, the “First and the Last,” THE SON
#3. Revelation 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown”. to the church of Philadelphia, this is our Lord Jesus the Christ, the same speaker, the “First and the Last”, THE SON
now lets see who this "Son" is, the ONE WHO IS COMING QUICKLY.
Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. it is THE SON, wait a minute, is not the FATHER the Alpha and Omega?. YES, but who is coming quickley? GOD. but who is God?. the Lord Jesus Christ in flesh. lets see, Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus”. so it’s the Lord Jesus who is coming, just as it say so in Revelation 1:7 & 8 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. so the Alpha and Omega is coming who is also the First and the Last. he who come quickley is the Lord Jesus, revelation 22:12 & 13, "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. so the Alpha and Omega, and the first and the last
, is the SAME PERSON. that just killed the “Father”, and the “Son”, and the “JESUS” have a God false doctrine. the one who is Father is the Son in Flesh and bones. the Spirit who is GOD, for God is a Spirit, and in 2 Corinthians 3:17a "Now the Lord is that Spirit”. JESUS, who is GOD is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, who hold the titles “Father”, and the title, “Son”.
This is how one put scripture together to reveal the truth. precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little, and one gets the TRUE picture.
Now, what you say?.
Nope and angel also said he was coming quickly Plus we are told two come not one.
ASV Malachi 3:1 Behold, I (Jehovah) send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant (Jesus), whom ye desire, behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts.
NJB Malachi 3:1 'Look, I shall send my messenger to clear a way before me. And suddenly the Lord whom you seek will come to his Temple; yes, the angel of the covenant, for whom you long, is on his way, says Yahweh Sabaoth.
Same word for angel or messenger.
It is Jehovah God and His son:
KJV Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction he (Jehovah)was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them (Jesus): in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
YLT Isaiah 63:9 In all their distress He is no adversary, And the messenger of His presence saved them, In His love and in His pity He redeemed them, And He doth lift them up, And beareth them all the days of old.
Both Come.
You can't just list scripture and apply them out of context.
What does that mean and how does it differ from Modalism?
the trinity doctrine is the word you use Modalism is just in reverse. "Diversity", is the plurality of the Same God in Flesh. hence the "Offspring". in the plurality of God, the true God, the Holy Spirit hold two titles, "Father", without flesh, without bone, and without blood. and "Son, with flesh, and with bone, and glorified without blood. same person only "diversified", or shared. and this is found in Phil 2:6 in the Greek Word "Form", which is G3444 μορφή morphe which means "NATURE", and the Nature that JESUS was in was a "SHARED" Nature. and that is found in the root of the word G3444 μορφή morphe, which is G3313 μέρος meros (mer'-os) 1. a division or share. there is our word, "SHARE". God is not a division, meaning two, NO, he is the SHARE, meaning the same person. that's where you make your mistake at with the trinity. not two person, but only one person, sharing the same nature. holding the Titles of "Father", and "Son". with your trinity you have three person, in the roles or titles as person, that's Modalism, only in reverse, see I have no person but one, no role playing, THINK ABOUT IT.
see in your trinity doctrine, you have place the true God, the Holy Spirit as the third person of your trinity. when in fact he's the only person in the Godhead with the titles "Father", and "Son", remember God is a Spirit, yes the Holy Spirit. Holy is God Character, Spirit is God nature. and let bring this out, the word Son do not, and I repeat do not mean a biological offspring, not according to the Spirit. son means "Character", as in Hebrews, 1:3, he is the G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (khar-ak-tare') of God on EARTH, MANIFESTED, the same person in flesh, supportive scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". here is a good example of the plurality of God. while speaking to Nicodemus on earth, he was in heaven at the same time. this "Diversity is found in the Greek word, G243 ἄλλος allos which expresses a numerical difference, (STOP, that's the plurality I speak of), and denotes another of the same sort, (and sort means nature, the same class as the Spirit), look up the word "sort".
this is just a short, or quick overview of "Diversity", or the plurality of God.
if interested in this conversation I'm here to try in answer any question you might have about "Diversity".
Nope and angel also said he was coming quickly Plus we are told two come not one.
ASV Malachi 3:1 Behold, I (Jehovah) send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant (Jesus), whom ye desire, behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts.
NJB Malachi 3:1 'Look, I shall send my messenger to clear a way before me. And suddenly the Lord whom you seek will come to his Temple; yes, the angel of the covenant, for whom you long, is on his way, says Yahweh Sabaoth.
Same word for angel or messenger.
It is Jehovah God and His son:
KJV Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction he (Jehovah)was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them (Jesus): in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
YLT Isaiah 63:9 In all their distress He is no adversary, And the messenger of His presence saved them, In His love and in His pity He redeemed them, And He doth lift them up, And beareth them all the days of old.
Both Come.
You can't just list scripture and apply them out of context.
LOL, unthinkable, Malachi 3:1 this when God came in Flesh as the redeemer, the coming I speak of is the end of all things. Try again, you're way off base.
There is no problem. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. The Scriptures that have been shown in post #9 show the distinction between the Persons of the Godhead. In 1 Corinthians 8:6 Paul is distinguishing the one true God from the false gods and idols which are spoken of in 1 Corinthians 8:4-5.
There is one God, but Jesus (the Word) was God and was with God - John 1:1. Yet He is distinct from the Father as John 1:1 and other Scripture shows.
One Lord, but both God the Father, and Jesus Christ are Lord. Both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Yah-weh, but Jesus is Lord in that the Father has put all things in subjection under Jesus and placed Him as head over all things to the church.
Ephesians 1:22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23] which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
There is one true God in contrast with the false gods and idols, and that one true God is the triune God.
that's right scripture do not contradict scripture, but you just did what the scriptures say not to do, listen to yourself, There is one God, but Jesus (the Word) was God (STOP, if God was GOD then he is the same Person). and was with God - John 1:1. Yet He is distinct from the Father as John 1:1 and other Scripture shows. question, if he was God how is he distinct, and two listen, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". Jesus clearly said in Revelation 1:17 & 18, "I AM the First and the Last". do you have two First and last?. NO, it's the Same person.
Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. so the title "son" is of the same Person, if not and as you say is distinct then you have two Gods.
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me".
Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
so if JESUS is a distinct person from God, then you deny the scriptures. With in John 1:1 simply means the same person, “pertaining to”.
Listen, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us”. what do the With here means?. I’ll let you try to answer that. or I can make it simple for you. How is God with us?.
There is no problem. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. The Scriptures that have been shown in post #9 show the distinction between the Persons of the Godhead. In 1 Corinthians 8:6 Paul is distinguishing the one true God from the false gods and idols which are spoken of in 1 Corinthians 8:4-5.
There is one God, but Jesus (the Word) was God and was with God - John 1:1. Yet He is distinct from the Father as John 1:1 and other Scripture shows.
One Lord, but both God the Father, and Jesus Christ are Lord. Both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Yah-weh, but Jesus is Lord in that the Father has put all things in subjection under Jesus and placed Him as head over all things to the church.
Ephesians 1:22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23] which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
There is one true God in contrast with the false gods and idols, and that one true God is the triune God.
again you contradict yourself, listen to yourself, "One Lord, but both God the Father, and Jesus Christ are Lord. Both God the Father and Jesus Christ are Yah-weh, but Jesus is Lord in that the Father has put all things in subjection under Jesus and placed Him as head over all things to the church".
do you see your contradiction, both are Yahweh, but you said that they are different person. so how can they be both and yet distinct?. and you said both are "Lord". so my point is Made when in Rev 226: the angel said the Lord God sent his angel. and that's one God, so they are not distinct as you say.
that's right scripture do not contradict scripture, but you just did what the scriptures say not to do, listen to yourself, There is one God, but Jesus (the Word) was God (STOP, if God was GOD then he is the same Person). and was with God - John 1:1. Yet He is distinct from the Father as John 1:1 and other Scripture shows. question, if he was God how is he distinct, and two listen, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". Jesus clearly said in Revelation 1:17 & 18, "I AM the First and the Last". do you have two First and last?. NO, it's the Same person.
You have already been shown clearly from Scripture in post #9 that the three Persons of the Godhead are distinct from each other, and yet are one God. God is One in terms of His nature or essence, but He is three in Persons. You are confusing Personhood and nature. The three Persons of the trinity are a united one in terms of their essence.
In John 1:1 the Word was God, but the Word which was God WAS ALSO WITH GOD. That means that the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Word, while Himself being God, was (and is) distinct from the One with whom He is said to have been - God the Father.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
