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Nothing builds thread pages in the Christianity forum like a good homosexual related topic!
This topic is truly the one that matters in our current time!
It really is sad to see that people are so divided on this. Do fundamentalists really believe that same sex attraction is actually a choice? Truly sad if this is the case. The sexual act itself may be a choice, but the attraction associated with it is not. What is so hard to understand about this? Is it just blatant denial? Seriously?
Nothing builds thread pages in the Christianity forum like a good homosexual related topic!
This topic is truly the one that matters in our current time!
It really is sad to see that people are so divided on this. Do fundamentalists really believe that same sex attraction is actually a choice? Truly sad if this is the case. The sexual act itself may be a choice, but the attraction associated with it is not. What is so hard to understand about this? Is it just blatant denial? Seriously?
The attraction is not a choice, similarly to how a husband or wife may be attracted to someone outside their marriage. The sin is the action, not the desire.
You are confused. Christ and the OT are at odds and I stand with Christ. You defend the ancient ignorance and barbarity believed by our primitive ancestors and reject Christ's Gospel of agape love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
Jesus studied the Old Testament and taught it in the synagogues. He taught it! He didn't re-write it.
Christ believed in Moses, you do not.
Christ believed in Jonah, you do not.
Christ believed in Cain and Abel, you do not.
Christ believed in Noah, and you do not.
Christ believed in the Old Testament, and you do not.
The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament. There is no difference.
God is the same . . . but not the descriptions and beliefs about him. Christ revealed a completely different God from the one described in the OT. "You have been told . . . but I say . . ." It is a vain and foolish person who says "live as I say for the reasons I give you and no others." That only serves vanity and ego. Our God couldn't be less reasonable than the best human being! If certain beliefs are causing people to err because they can no longer accept them, revise them or cast them out, as Jesus suggested in Luke 14:34
. . . Salt is good; but if even the salt loses its strength, what shall it be seasoned with? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure heap, but must be thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus set the precedent for revision of old beliefs with his own revision of the Old Testament which he justified in Luke 5:36,
. . . And no-one pours new wine into old wine skins; else the new wine will burst the skins, and will be spilt itself, and the skins ruined. But the new wine must be put into fresh skins and both are saved.
If we substitute generation for "wine" and beliefs for "skins," we can conclude that it is foolish to try to contain new generations within old beliefs because they are not as compatible with the newer perspectives and knowledge about the world of the newer generations. The old beliefs have served their purpose. They held the earlier generations' belief in God, mellowed our barbaric nature, and humankind has reaped the benefits. But age and new knowledge has weakened their power to persuade and made them totally inadequate to hold the new generations' belief in God. Newer, stronger beliefs more consistent with our rapidly expanding knowledge of the world are needed. This means revision, NOT abandonment!! Such revision has been one of the hallmarks of the splitting of Christianity into sects (Protestantism), (hence my optimism about Christianity) but even that spark of wisdom seems to have faded with the growth of Bible fundamentalism.
God is the same . . . but not the descriptions of him. Christ revealed a completely different God from the one described in the OT. "You have been told . . . but I say . . ." It is a vain and foolish person who says "live as I say for the reasons I give you and no others." That only serves vanity and ego. Our God couldn't be less reasonable than the best human being! If certain beliefs are causing people to err because they can no longer accept them, revise them or cast them out, as Jesus suggested in Luke 14:34
. . . Salt is good; but if even the salt loses its strength, what shall it be seasoned with? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure heap, but must be thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus set the precedent for revision of old beliefs with his own revision of the Old Testament which he justified in Luke 5:36,
. . . And no-one pours new wine into old wine skins; else the new wine will burst the skins, and will be spilt itself, and the skins ruined. But the new wine must be put into fresh skins and both are saved.
If we substitute generation for "wine" and beliefs for "skins," we can conclude that it is foolish to try to contain new generations within old beliefs because they are not as compatible with the newer perspectives and knowledge about the world of the newer generations. The old beliefs have served their purpose. They held the earlier generations' belief in God, mellowed our barbaric nature, and humankind has reaped the benefits. But age and new knowledge has weakened their power to persuade and made them totally inadequate to hold the new generations' belief in God. Newer, stronger beliefs more consistent with our rapidly expanding knowledge of the world are needed. This means revision, NOT abandonment!! Such revision has been one of the hallmarks of the splitting of Christianity into sects (Protestantism), (hence my optimism about Christianity) but even that spark of wisdom seems to have faded with the growth of Bible fundamentalism.
Your words are empty and meaningless as Jesus believed and taught the Old Testament which you deny. You have stated on this forum that God did not deliver the Israelites from the Egyptians. There's nowhere to go with such a person who could believe such a thing.
The attraction is not a choice, similarly to how a husband or wife may be attracted to someone outside their marriage. The sin is the action, not the desire.
Glad we agree on this part. So, how are people attracted to the same sex supposed to fulfill their lives? Love and physical sex are a human need. Yes, I said NEED, not want. Or, are they just supposed to go through life without the same enjoyment that heterosexual couples experience?
Why would God create them with same sex attractions? Doesn't He want the best for us? As an individual that was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical household, this is the hardest thing for me to understand, and the reason why, as a mature adult, I cannot fathom why fundies continue this absurd crusade against something that is so prevalent in the real world we live in.
Newer, stronger beliefs more consistent with our rapidly expanding knowledge of the world are needed.
AS IT IS WRITTEN
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
God is the same . . . but not the descriptions and beliefs about him. Christ revealed a completely different God from the one described in the OT. "You have been told . . . but I say . . ." It is a vain and foolish person who says "live as I say for the reasons I give you and no others." That only serves vanity and ego. Our God couldn't be less reasonable than the best human being! If certain beliefs are causing people to err because they can no longer accept them, revise them or cast them out, as Jesus suggested in Luke 14:34
. . . Salt is good; but if even the salt loses its strength, what shall it be seasoned with? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure heap, but must be thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus set the precedent for revision of old beliefs with his own revision of the Old Testament which he justified in Luke 5:36,
. . . And no-one pours new wine into old wine skins; else the new wine will burst the skins, and will be spilt itself, and the skins ruined. But the new wine must be put into fresh skins and both are saved.
If we substitute generation for "wine" and beliefs for "skins," we can conclude that it is foolish to try to contain new generations within old beliefs because they are not as compatible with the newer perspectives and knowledge about the world of the newer generations. The old beliefs have served their purpose. They held the earlier generations' belief in God, mellowed our barbaric nature, and humankind has reaped the benefits. But age and new knowledge has weakened their power to persuade and made them totally inadequate to hold the new generations' belief in God. Newer, stronger beliefs more consistent with our rapidly expanding knowledge of the world are needed. This means revision, NOT abandonment!! Such revision has been one of the hallmarks of the splitting of Christianity into sects (Protestantism), (hence my optimism about Christianity) but even that spark of wisdom seems to have faded with the growth of Bible fundamentalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
Your words are empty and meaningless as Jesus believed and taught the Old Testament which you deny.
That is not true. I do not deny the OT. IT is what testifies of Christ. Without it we would not know of Christ, not know how to identify Him, not know His status, not know what He would do and not know how to validate Him.
Quote:
You have stated on this forum that God did not deliver the Israelites from the Egyptians. There's nowhere to go with such a person who could believe such a thing.
I never made any such statements since I don't think it has anything to do with testifying about Christ . . . so it has no importance to me as a Christian and follower of Christ. Jews base their belief in God on such things. I base my belief in God on Christ because the descriptions of His agape love perfectly matches the consciousness I encounter in deep meditation. If your belief in God is based on the descriptions of the Jewish War God . . . you are not following the God Christ revealed, IMO.
Glad we agree on this part. So, how are people attracted to the same sex supposed to fulfill their lives? Love and physical sex are a human need. Yes, I said NEED, not want. Or, are they just supposed to go through life without the same enjoyment that heterosexual couples experience?
Why would God create them with same sex attractions? Doesn't He want the best for us? As an individual that was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical household, this is the hardest thing for me to understand, and the reason why, as a mature adult, I cannot fathom why fundies continue this absurd crusade against something that is so prevalent in the real world we live in.
If they are not a Christian, they are free to partake in any activity they desire. However, if they are a Christian, they are no longer their own and they should desire to serve God above themselves. Right? The apostle Paul says that if necessary, people should remain single and submit their lives to God. Anyone who is a new creature in Christ has a promise from God that He will not tempt them more than they can handle. It is not an impossible task to remain celibate for God. The Scripture teaches us that we should cut off our hand if it causes us to sin, it's that important.
As far as God wanting what is 'best for us', that doesn't mean in earthly ways, but in what is best according to God.
God is the same . . . but not the descriptions and beliefs about him. Christ revealed a completely different God from the one described in the OT. "You have been told . . . but I say . . ." It is a vain and foolish person who says "live as I say for the reasons I give you and no others." That only serves vanity and ego. Our God couldn't be less reasonable than the best human being! If certain beliefs are causing people to err because they can no longer accept them, revise them or cast them out, as Jesus suggested in Luke 14:34
. . . Salt is good; but if even the salt loses its strength, what shall it be seasoned with? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure heap, but must be thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus set the precedent for revision of old beliefs with his own revision of the Old Testament which he justified in Luke 5:36,
. . . And no-one pours new wine into old wine skins; else the new wine will burst the skins, and will be spilt itself, and the skins ruined. But the new wine must be put into fresh skins and both are saved.
If we substitute generation for "wine" and beliefs for "skins," we can conclude that it is foolish to try to contain new generations within old beliefs because they are not as compatible with the newer perspectives and knowledge about the world of the newer generations. The old beliefs have served their purpose. They held the earlier generations' belief in God, mellowed our barbaric nature, and humankind has reaped the benefits. But age and new knowledge has weakened their power to persuade and made them totally inadequate to hold the new generations' belief in God. Newer, stronger beliefs more consistent with our rapidly expanding knowledge of the world are needed. This means revision, NOT abandonment!! Such revision has been one of the hallmarks of the splitting of Christianity into sects (Protestantism), (hence my optimism about Christianity) but even that spark of wisdom seems to have faded with the growth of Bible fundamentalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
AS IT IS WRITTEN
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
I think you fundamental Bible literalists need to take a long hard look at WHO is believing in and following MYTHS!!! It is certainly not me. I not only have a certainty about God and His loving nature from personal experience . . . but I have a complete Synthesis of how it all probably works using the extant science and extrapolating plausible hypotheses . . . no mythology or magic involved.
I think you fundamental Bible literalists need to take a long hard look at WHO is believing in and following MYTHS!!! It is certainly not me. I not only have a certainty about God and His loving nature from personal experience . . . but I have a complete Synthesis of how it all probably works using the extant science and extrapolating plausible hypotheses . . . no mythology or magic involved.
You follow man, I follow God. Nothing more to say.
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