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ok pinnacled, lets look at the Holy Spirit and our Lord Jesus.
since my other party is not answering, I will get to that line of questioning later. but for now, lets understand what we already know about our Lord Jesus as the G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (khar-ak-tare'). it means, a graver (the tool or the person)
2. (by implication) engraving (("character"), the figure stamped, i.e. an exact copy or (figuratively) representation)
notice the bold and the underline I have high lighted. "the PERSON", and the "Character". not two person, but the SHARE of one PERSON, in "ANOTHER" form. following me so far?. our Lord Jesus by taking on flesh and bone, he have the same nature, Spirit, shared, spirit. notice the small case "s" in spirit there. Indication a IMAGE, which is man, for the spirit in flesh and bone is the IMAGE of God. by being in the express, meaning HIMSELF SHARED, confirm in Phil 2:6, where he "BEING", already existing, as the Spirit, took on human flesh and bone. see it now. and verse 8 say, "BEING found", which is in flesh
G4976 σχῆμα schema (skhay`-mah).
by implication, external condition. there is the flesh and bone. external condition, meaning outward man. now this is where me and the Oneness part company. they cannot believe our God could be a baby, or a child. oh yes, if he's the SHARE. that's why the Lord Jesus said, while talking to Nicodemus on Earth, he was in heaven at the same time, see John 3:13. and this is proved out in Luke 2:25, he is the consolation, or in the Greek the G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis, the Helper, or the COMFORTER, in "concrete" form. understand the Lord Jesus is the "concrete" present, or the IMAGE, or the representative of God in PERSON. not a different PERSON, but GOD himself shared in flesh. if one could understand the "sharing", of God's Spirit in flesh, game would be over. understand, while in flesh he was limited, (as in quantity), meaning he could only be in one place at a time. hence again the greater than question is expose for what it is. this same comfort to Israel, in flesh, is the Same comforter to Israel in Glorified flesh. hence the Spirit of Christ, note not the Spirit of God, but the Spirit of Christ, (the SAME SPIRIT, ONLY SHARED) for there is only ONE SPIRIT, and that SPIRIT is "HOLY", see it now?. Jesus the Christ in Glorified form is the HOLY GHOST, who is GOD. he is the NEW BEGINNING, and if any man be in HIM, he's a new creature, also. that why he is the "FIRST" born. not in biological nature, Oh no, but first born in Preeminence.
I'll STOP here and let you digest this in.
Peace.
I follow completely and agree, So glad the diversity of Spirit provided the articulation.
Each of us have our Gifts.
I feel that each of us have a hard time communicating the same way. I pray that the Spirit of Understanding will come.
I follow completely and agree, So glad the diversity of Spirit provided the articulation.
Each of us have our Gifts.
I feel that each of us have a hard time communicating the same way. I pray that the Spirit of Understanding will come.
this is true, communication is difficult at times, especially when one is in an unknown area to others. we as humans generally have the fear of the unknown. but our Father, the Lord Jesus, have NOT given us the spirit of fear.
[quote=101c;36678433]GINOLJC, to all
yes we need to find out about the Lord JESUS, and his relationship, "with", and "of" the Holy Spirit. we can do this in a friendly way, without arguing, and even without debating. and that way is the WORD of God, the Scriptures. this will eliminate any arguing, or getting mad. statement, "I have been accused of being a modalist, or of Sabellianism/Oneness, as assessed here. well for the record I believe in "DIVERSITY". meaning that there is only ONE GOD, and this ONE God shared himself in flesh and bone. now since I been assessed as the afore mention. well lets see if the assessment is true. I believe in one God, Diversified, ok. I say this is true, and I have scripture to support this belief.
Hi,
If you read what I said, it seems your belief was similar to, not that it was. I did ask for your clarification.
While I will be addressing your questions, maybe you could let us all know specifically what you mean by "diversity" and how this differs from Sabellianism? Definitely through the use of Scripture and any supporting writings from the 1st and into the early 2nd century as well.
Did a little more research on Sabellianism. Seems there is more to the definition than the one I found.
The Scripture states I and my Father are One.
…29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.…
To declare 'are one' speaks volume to me.
Hi,
The problem is in what "one" means in context. The grammar refers to one in unity of thought, practice, belief, not nature.
Jesus says that his followers are also one (using the same word) with he and his Father.
KJV John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
OK we are NOT of the same nature, but we have the same oneness of spirit, belief, practice etc.
KJV John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
To determine what a verse means, we use other verses speaking of the same subject rather than trying to tie them to verses not speaking of the same subject.
Note the critical word "one" in Biblical Greek.
John 10:30:
From Barclay Neuman GNM (Morphology) and referenced with each Scripture: Eis (Heis) adjective nominative neuter singular no degree
Being "nominative neuter" as to gender (note word gender a grammatical term not man woman, etc) is not used of nature.
UBS Lexicon:
1843 Eis prep. with acc. into, to; in, at, on, upon, by, near; among; against; concerning; as; eivj to, with inf. denotes purpose and sometimes result
John 17:11
From Barclay Neuman GNM (Morphology):From Barclay Neuman GNM (Morphology):Eis adjective pronoun cardinal nominative neuter singular
Neuter again so the same use.
1843 Eis prep. with acc. into, to; in, at, on, upon, by, near; among; against; concerning; as; eivj to, with inf. denotes purpose and sometimes result
John 17:21
Eis adjective pronoun cardinal nominativeneuter singular
1843 Eis prep. with acc. into, to; in, at, on, upon, by, near; among; against; concerning; as; eivj to, with inf. denotes purpose and sometimes result
Now if it had been in the genitive it would mean one as in number, but ... it isn't, so any attempt to say one person/being/nature, 3etc violates the riles of grammar and changes what Jesus meant.
Note:
1844 Eis gen. e`no,j , mia/j , e`no,j one; a, an, single; only one; ei-j tij = tij a certain one, someone, one; ei-j to.n e[na one another (1 Th 5.11); kaq/ e[na one by one (1 Cor 14.31)
However it isn't so being "one" and the same is not correct.
What sounds good in English does not always reflect what was meant in Biblical Greek.
when you answer that question. then I will prove my point. which is in the next question,
See red
Quote:
and we can see if the Lord Jesus is God or not. and if the Holy Spirit is involved. and at the same time see if our assessment of each other is true.
Define the word "God" as it has a wide variety of meanings and context must be considered.
Quote:
#2. here is the question. on the road to Damascus, who chose Paul the Apostle, who then was called Saul?. was it the one whom you call,
A. the Father, God
B. the Son, Lord JESUS
Both.
ASV John 5:19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.
BBE John 8:28 So Jesus said, When the Son of man has been lifted up by you, then it will be clear to you who I am, and that I do nothing of myself, but say as the Father gave me teaching.
ESV John 12:49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment- what to say and what to speak.
KJV Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
NIV John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jesus acts as his father's agent and does only his Father's will, not his own.NAS Matthew 26:42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Thy will be done."
Quote:
from here we can go on and understand the HOLY SPIRIT
I'll be waiting for your answers, and remember answer by, and or with scripture. make sure you have scripture. no arguing, just answers.
peace.
No problem and I am looking forward to your explanation as to what/who the Holy Spirit is.
101c did you share why Jesus called the Father His God, why He prayed to the Father, and why He will be subject to the Father if He really is the Father? I haven't had time to read all that you have shared but I just wanted to know if you have addressed this. Thanks and God bless.
2 CA, You said, "I believe 101C leans towards Sabellianism/Oneness but it would help if he clarified his view of the Holy Spirit; a person or God in some way????", well its not important, anyway.
First things first. I do not “lean” toward, Sabellianism/Oneness, as you believe. I believe in one God, yes, and one God only. and this one God is diversified in flesh. what differ my beliefs from Sabellianism is this, and I’ll answer by scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all”. see, no three modes here, only one mode, by one PERSON. read 1 Corinthians 12:6 again. you think CARNAL, I teach Spiritual, which is from the scriptures I believe in.
Two, what is “diversity?”. Lets make it simple, and get to the POINT, what do offspring means, definition, G1085 γένος genos (ghen'-os). it means, kin, abstract or concrete, now understand how the KJV can translate the word “offspring. born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock. see that third word, “diversity”. now listen to scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star”. meaning that he is before David, (ROOT), and after David, (OFFSPRING). before David without flesh, without bone, and without blood. the Lord God Almighty, the Spirit, as we have just discussed in Acts. but what we are zeroing in on, is the after David, the “offspring”. looking at our definition of G1085 γένος genos, what is the root of this word?, answer, G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ghin'-om-ai). and it means , to cause to be ("gen"-erate). supportive scripture, Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law”. the word “MADE” of a woman here, is G1096 γίνομαι ginomai, (smile). see CA, our Lord was “BORN” of the Virgin. so by “BIRTH” he have the RIGHT to sit on David throne. and take note, it is God who sit on David throne. scripture, Psalms 132:11 "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne”. the I here is the LORD, God, right. question, how can a Spirit sit?. (smile). he must have a Body. hence the “diversity”, God himself in Flesh, remember he said “will I set upon thy throne”. will is a future tense designation. understand, the diversity is the IMAGE, the FIGURE, the FASHION to come. supportive scriptures, #1. IMAGE, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, (how many person?, his, one), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high”. #2. FIGURE, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”. the Greek word for figure is G5179 τύπος tupos (too'-pos), which means, by implication, a stamp or scar. what is God stamp?, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high”. God stamp is his express image, or his G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (khar-ak-tare') listen to the definition, a graver the tool or the person by implication engraving (("character"), the figure stamped, there is that stamp. his character, that's the SON, or the share that was “BORN” #3. FASHION: Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross”. his fashion is to "to have”, have what?, as the scripture states "in" fashion, or in likeness as a man, scripture, Isaiah 42:13 "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies”
now back to our definition of “OFFSPRING”. G1085 γένος genos, it mean “kin” as in kinsman “REDEEMER”. why?, because he was BORN. and who is the REDEEMER?, scripture, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God”. notice the scripture said “his”, “his” redeemer, that’s the diversity, or the flesh to come, and please note that the redeemer is all in caps, (smile), signifying his deity in flesh, and BLOOD. understand, God in his natural State as Spirit, cannot die. so he went to the house of David and shared himself in the womb of the virgin, name Mary. question why May?, two reason, #1 she is of the house, or linage of David, and #2 God promise David to sit on his throne from the fruit of his loins, see again Psalms 132:11. see how all of this just fit together. now, by getting, or obtaining, a nature of Flesh and blood, (see Phil 2:7-8), NOW HE, GOD, the ETERNAL SPIRIT, CAN “DIE”, or “SEPERATE”, from the flesh he came in, yes die,, James 2:26 "the body without the spirit is dead". and yes it was the Son, the G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (khar-ak-tare), the “OFFSPRING”, that came. yes, God came, supportive scripture, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you”. so CA, who came?. answer, GOD, the “diversity”, (see Phil 2:6). the Greek used this word to describe the diversity, the “ANOTHER”, or the G243 “allos”. by being the “diversity”, the offspring, now he can give HIS “BLOOD” to REDEEM, or PURCHASE his Church, scripture, Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood”. the Holy Ghost?, yes the Holy Ghost.
now to see the “diversity” after his resurrection, “WITHOUT BLOOD”, scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have”. notice what missing?, “blood”, for flesh and blood cannot enter heaven, but flesh and bone can, (smile).
so CA, do you now have an understanding of the “diversity”. the diversity is the “objective”, in concrete form, God himself. and by sharing himself, not dividing, or copying himself, but sharing himself, he came in flesh and blood to accomplish his OWN will. to die for the sins of the world.
now, as for working on my question afore that I had asked, we have already answered that, so no need for you to come, now, with an answer, it have been given, thanks for the concern..
but you can work on this before tomorrow. the Lord GOD JESUS, is he the Holy Spirit?, if so answer by scripture, if no support this by scripture, no opinions please unless supportive by scripture. thanking you in advance.
Define the word "God" as it has a wide variety of meanings and context must be considered.
Both.
ASV John 5:19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.
BBE John 8:28 So Jesus said, When the Son of man has been lifted up by you, then it will be clear to you who I am, and that I do nothing of myself, but say as the Father gave me teaching.
ESV John 12:49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment- what to say and what to speak.
KJV Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
NIV John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jesus acts as his father's agent and does only his Father's will, not his own.NAS Matthew 26:42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Thy will be done."
No problem and I am looking forward to your explanation as to what/who the Holy Spirit is.
in RED, LOL,.......... CA, there is only ONE GOD. think, if it's one God then he is all of the MIGHT, see you have two Gods. a mighty, and a Almighty, that's Henotheism straight out of the devils mouth.
oh well, and no, the Holy Spirit is no "FORCE", (smile).
ASV John 5:19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth
in like manner.
BBE John 8:28 So Jesus said, When the Son of man has
been lifted up by you, then it will be clear to you who I am, and that I do nothing of myself, but say as the Father gave me teaching.
ESV John
12:49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent
me has himself given me a commandment- what to say and what to speak.
KJV Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in
Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual
blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and
without blame before him in love:
NIV John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not
praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jesus acts as his father's agent and does only his Father's
will, not his own.NAS Matthew 26:42 He went away again a second time and prayed,
saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Thy will be done."
I agree, expatCA. Thanks for sharing. Jesus will be under His Father when He delivers the kingdom up to the Father and is subject to the Father.
1 Cor. 15
27 For He (the Father) has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He (the Father) is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One (the Father) who subjected all things to Him..."
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-29-2014 at 08:05 PM..
I agree, expatCA. Thanks for sharing. Jesus will be under His Father when He delivers the kingdom up to the Father and is subject to the Father.
1 Cor. 15
27 For He (the Father) has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He (the Father) is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One (the Father) who subjected all things to Him..."
God bless.
greeting Shana,
have you studied up on the word "subject", with the word "Be" in front it?. get an old English dictionary and look up both words, and see how they are used in conjunction with each other. (smile). this might help you a bit
Peace
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