The Notion of Trinity (Revelation, beliefs, Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ)

[ShanaBrown]

But why make it more complicated than it needs to be? Why not just accept
what the Bible has to say about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?

I agree, Many Christians believe that there is one God, the Father, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. Jesus is the exact image of the invisible God (Hebrews 1) and He is the One who reveals the Father to us, but He is always subject to the Father. All things were given to Him by the Father. The Father is subject to no one and no one gives the Father anything.

John 17:2-4New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal (aionion) life. 3 This is eternal (aionion) life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.




1 Corinthians 8:5-7New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.


It's not complicated

The Spirit is “the spirit of the God” or “the holy spirit,” in this context a
synonymous term.

Yes, I agree.
God bless.

[steeps]

The Trinity concept was In part. A defense against those even back in the 3rd and 4th centuries? Who began teachings that Jesus was MERELY A MAN? Still maintaining Son of God. But without a LITERAL sense, Emmanuel meaning, God with us? Teachings of Jesus was a Angel? Also came in? Therefore a created being and no...A part of God himself manifest for us and with us. We have had these concepts RESSSURECTED again in new sects in the 1800s. The Trinity concept was to show and define. Jesus was LITERALLY of and part of his Father. As a son is out of and part of their own flesh fathers? Jesus was literally of his, God. None who claim Jesus seem to deny the NT teaches Jesus had NO flesh Father. So God is for Trinitarians and most others who maintain Jesus is more then a man, and IS NOT, merely a sent glorified Angel and not one? Or just a flesh man alone, either. But maintain Jesus as a Son of God revealed as Emmanuel . IS A PART OF GOD, humbled in the flesh. The TRINITY CONCEPT WAS TO SHOW HOW in the 3, God manifests to man. These 3 are..... As FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT. HOLY SPIRIT BEING The 3 ( Trinity means 3) and are ONE SOVERIGN GOD. WITH HOLY SPIRIT in JESUS ABSENSE, STLL REVEALING BOTH FATHER AND SON to us. You could also say, God revealed as The Almighty God in the Old Covenant. Declared as Father God by Jesus , who is our New Covenant and God revealing a part of Himself into the flesh and in Jesus flesh absence, still Father and Son revealed to man by Holy Spirit.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

But why make it more complicated than it needs to be? Why not just accept what the Bible has to say about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost? Do you think the Creeds actually provide any clarification as to the nature of God that we can't find in scripture? To me, they just serve to make God completely unknowable. That's not what God wants. He wants us to know Him and Jesus Christ, whom He sent. How has the doctrine of the Trinity helped you to really understand God better?

I agree with you on that for the most part. If I dont understand something, I accept it on faith if its in the bible. we wont know all the things about God. Coz he is God and we are mere humans. I do believe what Jesus wants me to know, I will know.

As for the Trinity, my position is this - I believe in the Trinity, I do not quite understand it, but i accept it on faith. I know what each of the Trinity does i.e. the Holy Spirit is the Helper and Teacher Jesus promised to send to help all believers. I know that the Father honors the Son and the Son honors the Father and the HOly Spirit honors Jesus. I know the Holy Spirit is not an "it" or a random force but a "he". (a person).

[ShanaBrown]

Notes on references to the Holy Spirit from this source:

""Many people assume that the Holy Spirit is a personal being based on references to that Spirit as "he," "him" and "himself" in the Bible. This confusion arises because of the use of gender pronouns in the Greek language in which the New Testament was written.Greek, like the Romance languages (Spanish, French, Italian and others), uses a specific gender for every noun. Every object, animate or inanimate, is referred to as either masculine, feminine or neuter. The gender is often arbitrary and unrelated to the whether the item is indeed masculine or feminine In Greek both masculine and neuter words are used in reference to the Holy Spirit. The Greek word translated "Helper," "Comforter" or "Counselor" in John 14, 15 and 16 is parakletos, a masculine word, and thus is referred to by the pronouns "he," "him," "his" and "himself" in those chapters. Because of the masculine gender of parakletos, those pronouns are technically correct in Greek, albeit misleading when translated word for word into English.But the supposition that the Holy Spirit is a person to be referred to as "he" or "him" is incorrect

Why Is the Holy Spirit Called 'He' and 'Him'? - Good News Magazine | United Church of God

God bless.

[2Q&Lrn&Hlp]

Originally Posted by ericsami

. . . I am always confused with the notion of Trinity. . . .
How do Christians deem people of other faiths that believe in God (a higher being),
but do not necessarily belive in god being embodied by three different entities.

Allow me to first share two Bible verses:

Psalm 83:18
"May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth."

1 Corinthians 11:3
" want you to know that . . . the head of the Christ is God."


The trinity doctrine teaches that God is 3 entities in 1, all coequal to one another.

It simply doesn't add up --any way you look at it-- to what the Bible actually says.


God's Son --Jesus Christ-- reminded the Jewish religious leaders (who were teaching man-made traditions instead of the truth) just how his Father felt about them, when he pointedly told them:


“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said:‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts arefar removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for theyteach commands of men as doctrines.'” (Matthew 15:7-9)

“You let go of the commandment of God and cling to thetraditionof men.

“You skillfully disregard the commandment of God in order tokeepyourtradition.” (Mark 7:8-9)


Christ warned his followers that there would likewise come to be many teaching falsehoods in his name, erroneously claiming to follow him . . .

"Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy ... expel demons ... and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’" (Matthew 7:22, 23)

"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, the chosen ones. You, then, watch out. . . ." (Mark 13:22, 23)



When we search for the true origin of the trinity doctrine, we find the following facts:


In, The New Encyclopædia Britannica:

“Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . .”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.


In, The New Catholic Encyclopedia:

“The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ . . . Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.


In, The Encyclopedia Americana:

“Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. . . . Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.


According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel,

“The Platonic trinity, itself merely a *rearrangement* of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the 'Christian' churches. . . This Greek philosopher’s# conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.” #[Plato, 4th century B.C.E.]
—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.


John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says:

“The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.



We really don't need to add to the above the further warnings of his early followers, such as:
1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3, 4; 2 Peter 2:1-3 . . . to see that the trinity is a total fabrication.

God's Word calls those who teach that --as well as many other false doctrine-- part of the conglomerate Antichrist, which had its beginning even before Christ's apostles had died.



You, however, asked: "How do Christians deem people of other faiths that believe in God (a higher being), but do not necessarily believe in god being embodied by three different entities?"

Well . . . true Christians believe that God is one, single person,
the very highest person in both the spirit heavens, and the physical heavens.

So . . . when people of other faiths also worship a singular god, that gives us something that we have in common, something that we use to begin a discussion with them. They are definitely on the right track with that line of thought.


Christ himself described his followers . . .

“[The] true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed . . .
God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
(John 4:23-24)

There have come to be many lies taught & believed about God . . . not just the trinity,
but the lie that he keeps people alive forever to torture them, and many others.


I've been known to ask people who believe them: "How would you feel if people made up lies about you, claiming to be your representatives, and giving you a bad name in the process? Or accepting lies as truths about you? Would you feel like trusting them with any responsibilities? Would it be a sound basis to build a healthy relationship on . . . ? Or, would you require them to become honest & trustworthy first . . . refusing to lie . . . or listen to lies . . . ?"

There are many who worship a myriad of gods in the world, and they are each invited to become true worshippers of Almighty Jehovah God. He is *not* the god of the churches of Christendom. He is instead very loving, and just, and he truly wants what is best --long term-- for everyone. . . .

Those who choose to do things their own ways are the cause of the problems we face today.
Their gods are powerless to lead them to true & satisfying success.
They instead lead them to death & hopelessness.
God does not want that for them . . .

"'From the days of Your forefathers You have turned aside from my regulations
and have not kept [them]. Return to me, and I will return to You,' Jehovah of armies has said." (Malachi 3:7)

"If only you would pay attention to my commandments!
Then your peace would become just like a river
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea." (Isaiah 48:18)

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)


"The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit"

[hd4me]

Originally Posted by ericsami

I am personally agnostic when it comes to religions. I have decided proving/disproving god is way above my philosophical and physics understanding of mine.

However like Many people of other religions (Jewish,Islam,...) that believe in Monotheistic gods I am always confused with the notion of Trinity.

I understand there are Unitarians out there in Christianity as well; however they are really a small minority when it comes to the Notion of Trinity.

How do Christians deem people of other faiths that believe in God (a higher being). but do not necessarily belive in god being embodied by three different entities.

The worship of God is not a numbers game. What matters to God is the quality of an individual's worship not the quantity of worshippers or doctrines by consensus. Nevertheless there are millions of Christians who accept what the Bible says that there is One Almighty God (monotheism).

So...How do Christians deem people of other faiths that believe in God but do not necessarily believe in God being embodied by three different entities?

Well, I think it's an opportunity to have a fruitful discussion with people of other faiths and to share from the Bible about there being One God and that is what Jesus taught...

1 Corinthians 15:24-28, "24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

John 14:28: "I am going my way to the Father for the Father is greater than I am."

John 17:20, "‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’

And that the holy spirit is not a person...

Acts 2:1-4 and 17.

That would be a good start.

[burrrrr]

Originally Posted by ericsami

I am personally agnostic when it comes to religions. I have decided proving/disproving god is way above my philosophical and physics understanding of mine.

However like Many people of other religions (Jewish,Islam,...) that believe in Monotheistic gods I am always confused with the notion of Trinity.

I understand there are Unitarians out there in Christianity as well; however they are really a small minority when it comes to the Notion of Trinity.

How do Christians deem people of other faiths that believe in God (a higher being). but do not necessarily belive in god being embodied by three different entities.

I'll give you a small piece of what I see. In the ring of Protestant churches, the majority are still Trinitarian in view, however some emerging groups claim a "Oneness" doctrine, which I think is what you meant by "Unitarians."

I think the largest, and most proactive group that pushes this doctrine is the United Pentecostal Church International. They tend to have a history of being very aggressive about their beliefs on Oneness doctrine so much in that I have heard them claim that Trinitarian Christians are mono-theistic. I think when you get so many different denominations coming up with different interpretations of the Bible it is bound to happen. Do I think it means they are going to hell and do not believe in the sacrifice of Jesus? No absolutely not. There are a lot o not UPCI folk who don't make such claims, love the Lord, and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Now do I think their church is a little mislead? Yep, but that could be said of the thousands of split-off groups in Christianity.

This group also has a history of being very aggressive on their "speaking in tongues" doctrine, but that's not what we are talking about.

In fact, there is a very rational debate somewhere I once saw between a UPCI theologian preacher and some Trinitarian theologian preacher that gives a lot of reasons why they both believe what they believe in a non-combative way. If you are interested I can definitely look it up and get you the link!



Hope that helps.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by burrrrr

I'll give you a small piece of what I see. In the ring of Protestant churches, the majority are still Trinitarian in view, however some emerging groups claim a "Oneness" doctrine, which I think is what you meant by "Unitarians."

I think the largest, and most proactive group that pushes this doctrine is the United Pentecostal Church International. They tend to have a history of being very aggressive about their beliefs on Oneness doctrine so much in that I have heard them claim that Trinitarian Christians are mono-theistic. I think when you get so many different denominations coming up with different interpretations of the Bible it is bound to happen. Do I think it means they are going to hell and do not believe in the sacrifice of Jesus? No absolutely not. There are a lot o not UPCI folk who don't make such claims, love the Lord, and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Now do I think their church is a little mislead? Yep, but that could be said of the thousands of split-off groups in Christianity.

This group also has a history of being very aggressive on their "speaking in tongues" doctrine, but that's not what we are talking about.

In fact, there is a very rational debate somewhere I once saw between a UPCI theologian preacher and some Trinitarian theologian preacher that gives a lot of reasons why they both believe what they believe in a non-combative way. If you are interested I can definitely look it up and get you the link!



Hope that helps.

Oneness is not Unitarianism. It is a version of the Trinity and is also known as Sabellianism and has three personalities as it were in one God, not three persosn God in effect being God the father, the Son and the Spirit at will. Lousy explanation, but it is that way because it has the same problems as the Trinity.

I use Biblical Monotheism as the best description for that which the Bible describes. One God, the Father, his only begotten son Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, his method of interacting with creation or if you will his power directed.

[burrrrr]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Oneness is not Unitarianism. It is a version of the Trinity and is also known as Sabellianism and has three personalities as it were in one God, not three persosn God in effect being God the father, the Son and the Spirit at will. Lousy explanation, but it is that way because it has the same problems as the Trinity.

I use Biblical Monotheism as the best description for that which the Bible describes. One God, the Father, his only begotten son Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, his method of interacting with creation or if you will his power directed.

OP seemed to have the two confused, not me

[pinacled]

It means God has Mind, Body, and, Spirit . It was prophetic in old testament. The temple had three parts.