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The practice of Heterosexual men raping other men to humiliate and dominate them has been around for a long time. Still happens unfortunately. The vast majority of male rape is perpetrated by heterosexual men.
But that is not homosexuality. It's rape - by heterosexual men.
If you are suggesting that the sin of Sodom was rape then you have no proof for that position other than your claim that it was a cultural norm. Plus this position faces the problem of Jude 1:7 which specifically says that sexual immorality and perversion was going on in the city.
Let me guess, your have a Boer background? Your comments so far in this thread tell me Africaan is your first language.
and my background has something to do with the discussion of gays? Would you also mention the background of a jew condemning homosexuality? Oh no. that is PC taboo. Fact is every faith, about every culture is against it. Western ones have made PC laws which the majority probably don't agree with. That doesn't make being a moffie morally right.
South Africa has had same-sex marriage since 2006. His head must have exploded.
And because some jewish judge imposed it due to pressure form the west, against the will of the majority of white and black people, and the major churches, it is supposed to mean something? Rather ask home much money the ANC took to impose such a law when their own president is openly anti-gay. Well the ANC blacks sure know how to take money from western liberals. Works out well for the ANC. They can say it wasn't them, a jewish judge made the law. The judge gets plenty of shekels, and everyone is happy. Meanwhile they may have the law but you don't see the marriages. Society wont accept it. Another sham played on the western PC liberals.
Perhaps the American gays can take advantage and come get married here legally. Meanwhile the tsotsis can mug them, hijack them etc and also score. Every one wins. Christian morality loses.
[mod] Sadly, the quoted post had to be deleted. [/mod
Excuse me, but you do know that sodomy is oral or anal sex, which STRAIGHT couples can and do engage in. If you belive that straight couples, including married ones, only engage in missionary intercouse for procreation purposes, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
What do you say to straight couples engaging in sodomy? Or do you think sodomy is only homosexual?
Last edited by mensaguy; 11-06-2014 at 01:49 PM..
Reason: inappropriate language in quoted post
Why have gays as friends? the bible says flee from sin. I avoid anything to do with them. It is not my role to judge them or teach them about sin. They know it themselves but choose their lifestyle. If they truly believed it is genetics they would acknowledge it as sinful, remain in the closet and beg for forgiveness, not blatantly flaunt it. But today such lifestyles are called 'alternative lifestyles'. Nothing alternative about it. It's been around since Sodom.
Uh, because JESUS ate with sinners, partied with sinners, mingled with sinners, and gave His life for sinners---not for self-righteous people? In fact, the more religious they were the further away from them He stayed.
The sin of Sodom was inhospitality. Other scriptural verses reflecting on Sodom and Gomorrah do not mention sex of males with males, while they do mention those cities were inhospitable to sojourners and did not provide for the poor.
You need to be better read in the scripture, and get some alternate translations since English Bibles rarely can convey the accuracy of Hebrew or even Greek.
If you are suggesting that the sin of Sodom was rape then you have no proof for that position other than your claim that it was a cultural norm. Plus this position faces the problem of Jude 1:7 which specifically says that sexual immorality and perversion was going on in the city.
Don't know your bible well do you?
Quote:
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and
needy.
Ezekiel 16:49
Quote:
The belief that God destroyed Sodom because of homosexuality is a late interpretation. It came into being 1700 years after the destruction of Sodom. No human author of the Old Testament linked Sodom with being gay. In fact, until the inter-testamental period, around 150 BC to AD 100, it is
difficult to find any Jewish literature which links Sodom with homosexuality. Since the biblical text makes no mention of homosexuality, anti-gay commentators must read into the text, something the text does not say, in an attempt to make scripture say what they wish it said.
Moses, writing in Genesis 10:19, 13:10, 12, 13, 14:2, 8, 10-11, 12, 17, 21-22, 18:16, 20, 22, 26, 19:1, 4, 24, 28; Deuteronomy 23:17, 29:23, 32:32, and Ezekiel, writing in Ezekiel 16:46, 48-49, 53, 55-56, emphasize Sodom’s lack of hospitality, greed, idolatry, gluttony but neither author mentions gays or
lesbians or gay sex or homosexuality as the sin of Sodom. The world must wait until the 163 BC-AD 93 time frame for extra-biblical Jewish writers to begin linking Sodom to particular kinds of same sex activity like pederasty and prostitution.
It is unclear from this brief passage in Genesis why God demolished the city. The following theories have been advanced.
The people of Sodom:
Engaged in consensual homosexual acts -- a same-sex orgy in this case. This is the belief of most conservative Christians. This option seems unlikely because:
Genesis 19:5 said that all of the men (perhaps all of the people) of Sodom formed the mob at Lot's house and demanded to "know" the angels. The percentage of homosexuals in a typical group of male adults is generally around 5%, not 100%.
Also, Lot had lived in the city for some years and would have know if all of the men were homosexuals; he would hardly have offered to sacrifice his daughters to the mob if the men were entirely homosexual.
Finally, as noted above, if the men of Sodom were all homosexuals, there would be few if any children and widows in the city as are mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.
Were uncharitable and abusive to strangers, the poor, sick, and disadvantaged. In that society, a person had a very strong obligation to protect any guests in their home. Many liberal Christians believe that this is the meaning behind the story of the destruction of Sodom. This belief has considerable support in the many other references to Sodom in the Bible and Jewish literature.
Wanted to humiliate their visitors by engaging in "an act of sexual degradation and male rape...These are acts of violence that are committed by parties seeking to show their hatred for those they are degrading. It is not an act of love or of caring" [SIZE=2]1 [/SIZE]Some theologians suggest that the sin of Sodom was the threat of mass rape.
Wanted to engage in bestiality -- having sex with members of another species.The mob may have wanted to rape the angels; angels are not human beings; they are of a different species. This would be consistent with the frequently mistranslated verse in Jude about the men of Sodom going after "other flesh" or "strange flesh."
Wanted to adsorb 9 (sic) the power of the angels: In ancient times, sacred sex was very common. People would engage in sexual intercourse with temple prostitutes who represented a god or goddess. By doing so, the people believed that they would receive a blessing from the deity. If the people of Sodom realized that angels sent by God were present in their city, the men of Sodom may have concluded that raping the angels might give them supernatural powers.
---------------------------
Quote:
The interpretation of Genesis 19 as referring to a homosexual sin appears to have been created in the 11th century by the Italian ascetic St. Peter Damian.
Father Basil Isaacs, "Proofx booklet", Fountain of Life Western Orthodox Church Catholic Mission. Available for $2.50 from 1928 E. Highland, Suite F104-142, Phoenix, AZ 85016.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,954,247 times
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Does any one who isn't a fundie, notice the vitriol and absence of any reasoning showing in some of our member's postings? Why does one get the impression some of these people would be strong, and probably active, supporters of ISIS if they were Muslim?
Uh, because JESUS ate with sinners, partied with sinners, mingled with sinners, and gave His life for sinners---not for self-righteous people? In fact, the more religious they were the further away from them He stayed.
The sin of Sodom was inhospitality. Other scriptural verses reflecting on Sodom and Gomorrah do not mention sex of males with males, while they do mention those cities were inhospitable to sojourners and did not provide for the poor.
You need to be better read in the scripture, and get some alternate translations since English Bibles rarely can convey the accuracy of Hebrew or even Greek.
"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
If you are suggesting that the sin of Sodom was rape then you have no proof for that position other than your claim that it was a cultural norm. Plus this position faces the problem of Jude 1:7 which specifically says that sexual immorality and perversion was going on in the city.
Rape is sexual immorality. Judges 9 proves the men weren't gay, and you clearly have not read Ezekiel where it flat out tells you the sin of Sodom is inhospitality.
Not to mention, considering Lot offered up his daughters to be raped instead of the angels, anyone who takes the Sodom story as a valid moral guide for the 21st Century probably needs to be locked up for the safety of society.
It is unclear from this brief passage in Genesis why God demolished the city. The following theories have been advanced.
The people of Sodom:
Engaged in consensual homosexual acts -- a same-sex orgy in this case. This is the belief of most conservative Christians. This option seems unlikely because:
Genesis 19:5 said that all of the men (perhaps all of the people) of Sodom formed the mob at Lot's house and demanded to "know" the angels. The percentage of homosexuals in a typical group of male adults is generally around 5%, not 100%.
Also, Lot had lived in the city for some years and would have know if all of the men were homosexuals; he would hardly have offered to sacrifice his daughters to the mob if the men were entirely homosexual.
Finally, as noted above, if the men of Sodom were all homosexuals, there would be few if any children and widows in the city as are mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.
Were uncharitable and abusive to strangers, the poor, sick, and disadvantaged. In that society, a person had a very strong obligation to protect any guests in their home. Many liberal Christians believe that this is the meaning behind the story of the destruction of Sodom. This belief has considerable support in the many other references to Sodom in the Bible and Jewish literature.
Wanted to humiliate their visitors by engaging in "an act of sexual degradation and male rape...These are acts of violence that are committed by parties seeking to show their hatred for those they are degrading. It is not an act of love or of caring" [SIZE=2]1 [/SIZE]Some theologians suggest that the sin of Sodom was the threat of mass rape.
Wanted to engage in bestiality -- having sex with members of another species.The mob may have wanted to rape the angels; angels are not human beings; they are of a different species. This would be consistent with the frequently mistranslated verse in Jude about the men of Sodom going after "other flesh" or "strange flesh."
Wanted to adsorb 9 (sic) the power of the angels: In ancient times, sacred sex was very common. People would engage in sexual intercourse with temple prostitutes who represented a god or goddess. By doing so, the people believed that they would receive a blessing from the deity. If the people of Sodom realized that angels sent by God were present in their city, the men of Sodom may have concluded that raping the angels might give them supernatural powers.
---------------------------
Father Basil Isaacs, "Proofx booklet", Fountain of Life Western Orthodox Church Catholic Mission. Available for $2.50 from 1928 E. Highland, Suite F104-142, Phoenix, AZ 85016.
So it's not possible that the sin was both in hospitality and homosexuality?
Quote:
Yet another argument marshaled in an effort to justify homosexuality concerns the allusions in the prophets to Sodom. Isaiah (3:9), Jeremiah (23:14), and Ezekiel (16:49) all referred to the sinfulness of Sodom, but none explicitly mentioned homosexuality as the problem. In fact, Ezekiel pinpointed the specific sins of “pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness,” and Sodom’s unwillingness to aid the poor and needy. In response, we would suggest that we hardly should be surprised that a city that was guilty of sexual perversion likewise would be guilty of additional violations of God’s will.
As a matter of fact, Isaiah did not specify a particular sin, but merely noted how brazen and open the Sodomites were with their sin: “The look on their countenance witnesses against them, and they declare their sin as Sodom; they do not hide it.” Interestingly, this depiction is very apropos of the “in-your-face” attitude of those who seek to advance the homosexual agenda in our day. Jeremiah made essentially the same point in his comparison between Judah and Sodom when he wrote: “No one turns back from his wickedness.” He, too, was noting the blatant, unbending, determined intention to proceed with their sin. Ezekiel, though mentioning the additional sins listed above, nevertheless referred repeatedly to Sodom’s “abomination” (16:50; cf., vss. 43,47,51,52,58). Moses connected “abomination” with homosexual activity (Leviticus 18:22).
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