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Jessaka: It's funny about what you said with the Hindu church. It reminds me about what my ex-mother-in-law said when I confronted her about how she was rough-housing with my son. She said "I have to wrestle with him so he'll be tough and not become a wuss! That's what I did with my son."
What you did with your son is different, but I can see why you made the comparison. This didn't toughed people up at the Hindu church; instead people were leaving in tears, literally, and others that stayed decided to not be near the gurus, and they decided to not do vounteer work because some members were mean, but also because it brought them into contact with gurus. Those that stayed close to the gurus became mean as a result, like a pecking order.
Quote:
One of the hardest things for us to do is to forgive, but Christ tells us that if we don't forgive our brothers sins then he won't forgive ours.
This is very true in that we have to forgive, but if you are in a situation where you are constantly being put down and see others being hurt, then it is time to leave. You can forgive, but leave the situation. I found that people that didn't leave certain situations became like their abusers.
Actions and words can be forgiven, but that doesn't mean they can be forgotten. I cannot speak for the others that have shared their stories here, but for myself, I no longer have the desire, or the need, to go to church. This is, obviously, a personal decision for each of us to make. Others may feel the need to continue to attend, which is fine for them. But, for me, my relationship with my Creator is not dependant on church attendance.
Great comments. Same as I said in my above post. Of course we always agree with like minded people. LOL. In the case of Hazel, he had apologized. I can understand her fear of not wanting to be hurt again, and I have no answer for that. In my case in a certain Hindu religion I had talked to the guru in charge about his comments to me, and he apologized, so I forgave him and continued going, just to have him hurt me again. And then I came forward with another issue in regards to what was going on, and he told me to not come back until I was over my anger towards him, when in fact I was trying to talk to him about certain issues so that he would understand me and would could make amends. Then he told me that I couldn't volunteer anymore, and next he shunned me, so I went to another temple, and the same happened because they knew about this guru shunning me. Then I realized that I wasn't the only one being treated badly, so I left. So if a person hurts somone in a church and you go to that person to make things better, if things are not better, then why stay, especially if it is done by a minister? I also think in Hazel's case some people don't recover from certain types of hurts. I realize that I would feel the same as Hazel, but I would try another church, but in reading these posts it seems like it happens in most churches as well as temples. I just don't like to put myself out there to get hurt. And maybe I expect more from religions than I do clubs, because I have had people say things to me in clubs, but I return to them because I don't expect anything from them. I think we expect ministers and laymembers in churches to be better people. The only place I have ever been where I found better people is a certain Vietnamese Zen monastery I attended, and yet I know that people have been hurt in Buddhist monasteries, even the one I attended, because I know of two Buddhist monks that left due to being hurt, but what happened to them was so mild to my past experiences in religions that I shrugged it off and stayed.
Last edited by Mattie Jo; 01-04-2008 at 03:57 AM..
Would having one's college priest/chaplain "hit on you" qualify?
Definitely qualifies, june!!! If someone seriously disappoints us by their behavior, expecially someone we hold to a high standard of moral behavior, it tends to be hurtful.
Don't worry Hazel Eyes, if you don't feel comfortable at that church anymore, it certainly isn't the only place to be near and worship God. In fact, I rather look for Him anywhere but church. I tried a few churches, had bad experiences at each, and decided to not let all that be a stain on my faith. Be your own spiritual leader.
It is no wonder why church attandance has become so low, as I have read the many comments of people hurt in church and decided to go a different rout. And by no means should anyone be ridiculed in church. Church is for edifing and encouragement, to bring the saints together to worship our wonderul Creator Jesus Christ.
All seem to be sincere about their faith in Christ. It conserns me that people deside to worship on the own, when the bible clearly tells us to have fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ. When something is going on in the church why do we run, look what Jesus did when they were ex-changing money in the temple He got angry and would not stand for it. So why do we let the world come into the church and do nothing about it, yet one person can take prayer out schools. And its ok. Being hurt in church is not what God designed, but for the sake of Christ why not stand up and not let these things happen in His Church.
Last edited by bwmillard; 01-04-2008 at 09:58 PM..
Reason: missing words
It conserns me that people deside to worship on the own, when the bible clearly tells us to have fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ.
So why do we let the world come into the church and do nothing about it, yet one person can take prayer out schools. And its ok. Being hurt in church is not what God designed, but for the sake of Christ why not stand up and not let these things happen in His Church.
I found the above to be really interesting, particularly the poster's asking "Why do we let the world come into the church and do nothing about it?" --I can't help but think that in large part the answer would be "Because we are fundamentally human." As well, I am curious as to why it would be concerning that individuals would consciously choose to "worship on their own."
I cannot say that any "negative" experience I ever had in church resulted in my leaving and becoming a nonbeliever. I can't say that my college chaplains' actions "turned the tides" in terms of my belief or nonbelief. I can say, however, that it made me more acutely aware of the frailties of all human beings, and that even those who are called to certain roles within the church can betray the honor that has been bestowed upon them.
People will disappoint us, (and even hurt us) in life. I can't help but think that anytime there is a large gathering of individuals, that there exists the potential of being disappointed or hurt on some level. That in no way is meant to say that actions are excusable; I am merely trying (for my own purposes) to put such actions within a reframed context that facillitates understanding...
-Because I can't help but think that it would be far better for someone, (in the aftermath of having been hurt in church,) to continue to follow their path of belief and worship on their own than to "jump ship" altogether. -Because I also can't help but wonder whether in so doing, that it wouldn't in some sense keep the person engaged in their faith, and in turn, with others.
...Because I think there is something to be said about someone sitting alone in an empty church, as opposed to not sitting there at all.
Churches that are full of sinners are like hospitals full of sick people.
I believe most would agree Christian's going to Church is the "ideal" situation. I'm sure some are so embittered they'll argue with me over what God would like us to do, but That's OK... my point is ; two is better than one... and a cord of three strands is not easily broken. Since Christ has established the "Church" and is refered to as the bride... our gathering together is the ideal situation. There is no condemnation in a personal/private relationship with God, outside of church... it's just not what Jesus intended for our growth as a body, enabled by... edification and accountability.
Our bodies are made of many cells that find a way (most of the time) to work together. Just as people can injure themselves, we Christian's are extremely good at killing our wounded. In churches...That is a failure in leadership... plain and simple. Men must take the blame for this. It is very apparent to all, there is a glaring absence of men in church, there is a glaring absence of fathers in the home, there is a glaring absence of integrity, there is a incredible absence of accountability. When our bodies become out of balance we know it, and those around us know it. The Church know's it too. Healthy bodies show it as well... and in church it's called the "fruit of the spirit". Churches today are clearly suffereing a "spiritual crisis".
So how do we fix that? and what are signs of healthy churches?
I could go on forever, so I won't... but fixing what is wrong can't be done apart from the body. Minor injures ...yes... fasting and prayer can fix that... but some injuries require help, and we can not do it all, alone... apart from the body. We must reclaim our churches by getting involved, not withdrawing.
A symptom of Healthy churches is a vital, vibrant, outgoing, humble, male presence. You see families with husbands in the seats, you see men leading ministries, you see men volunteering, you see men. We as men have failed miserably in carrying our assingment faithfully... and who then is left? it's women, God's women! who have carried the "Church" on their shoulders while men allow their own spiritual bankruptcy to drag themselves (and the Church) into indifference, seperation, and sin. God bless every women who had to "stand in" for a man who has failed... so please forgive us.
That is some serious "male bashing"... but I r one!
Please find a body of believers with whom you can worship with. Please do not quit looking. Please get inviolved.
off the soap box........ God bless each of you who have felt pain when you should have felt love.
Churches that are full of sinners are like hospitals full of sick people.
I believe most would agree Christian's going to Church is the "ideal" situation. I'm sure some are so embittered they'll argue with me over what God would like us to do, but That's OK... my point is ; two is better than one... and a cord of three strands is not easily broken. Since Christ has established the "Church" and is refered to as the bride... our gathering together is the ideal situation. There is no condemnation in a personal/private relationship with God, outside of church... it's just not what Jesus intended for our growth as a body, enabled by... edification and accountability.
Our bodies are made of many cells that find a way (most of the time) to work together. Just as people can injure themselves, we Christian's are extremely good at killing our wounded. In churches...That is a failure in leadership... plain and simple. Men must take the blame for this. It is very apparent to all, there is a glaring absence of men in church, there is a glaring absence of fathers in the home, there is a glaring absence of integrity, there is a incredible absence of accountability. When our bodies become out of balance we know it, and those around us know it. The Church know's it too. Healthy bodies show it as well... and in church it's called the "fruit of the spirit". Churches today are clearly suffereing a "spiritual crisis".
So how do we fix that? and what are signs of healthy churches?
I could go on forever, so I won't... but fixing what is wrong can't be done apart from the body. Minor injures ...yes... fasting and prayer can fix that... but some injuries require help, and we can not do it all, alone... apart from the body. We must reclaim our churches by getting involved, not withdrawing.
A symptom of Healthy churches is a vital, vibrant, outgoing, humble, male presence. You see families with husbands in the seats, you see men leading ministries, you see men volunteering, you see men. We as men have failed miserably in carrying our assingment faithfully... and who then is left? it's women, God's women! who have carried the "Church" on their shoulders while men allow their own spiritual bankruptcy to drag themselves (and the Church) into indifference, seperation, and sin. God bless every women who had to "stand in" for a man who has failed... so please forgive us.
That is some serious "male bashing"... but I r one!
Please find a body of believers with whom you can worship with. Please do not quit looking. Please get inviolved.
off the soap box........ God bless each of you who have felt pain when you should have felt love.
In His Service.......Dave
Dave you just said what I was trying to say in my previous quote. Amen Brother and you are absolutly right the men in the church have failed
If I Could Have A Home Church That Preached Jesus only And Refused To Bow To The World,make The Leaders Practice What They Preach, I Would Gladly Love To Be A Member.(it's Not So Interesting ,at Times, Being One's Own Spiritual Leader And It Can Be Lonely.)
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Not exactly "hurt" or in the church, BUT:
... but I r one!
