Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am a former devout, fundamentalist, literalist Christian (pre-trib) who is now, essentially, an atheist. I just needed to get that out of the way so that we are clear from the start.
Anyway, the last church I attended was Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale, which is a wildly popular mega-church in the suburbs of the Ft. Lauderdale metro area. It was founded by the endearing, boy next door, Bob Coy and his wife. In my 3 or 4 years stint there, I watched the church grow exponentially to the point where they moved into three different buildings (including their current location), each time moving into something larger in a mere 2 years. I believe there were about 14,000 people attending that church on a Sunday; a combined total from 3 Sunday services. Even weekday services were packed and for convenience, there was a Saturday service also for those who could not make the Sunday services. Oddly enough, it was the height of my Christian experience and during my time at that church, that I lost my Christian faith (with no regrets, per se) and I have since left that church and religion altogether for years now.
Some time during the early summer, my brother, still living in the area, called me in my new state to ask me if I heard what happened at Calvary Chapel. I was not surprised when he told me a sex scandal brought down Bob Coy. He was been exiled to recover from his alleged "sins." Being that Bob Coy was Calvary Chapel, I really thought that his demise would bring the church down. Apparently the church is still going strong (from what I can tell 1,200 miles away), but from what I knew about Coy and his message, he was about this tender hearted version of Christianity where forgiveness and second chances played a huge role. He always portrayed himself as an imperfect human being and was never really pompous, at least not in the public eye, and I believe this served him well and appears to have allowed people to take a more sympathetic and understanding attitude toward him in his moment of crisis. I also believe, this will also se the stage for him to come back as an example of is own message, so to speak.
Now, contrast him with Mark Driscoll and his current mess. Mark was known for his "masculine," in your face style and unlike Coy, he is practically being run out of town to the joy of some. His whole legacy has unraveled and the ultimate insult is that his church is about to dissolve. So, two large churches on opposite ends of the country, surrounding a popular figure and both with pastors in trouble. One in a sex scandal but his church is thriving and the other, an apparent arrogant, misogynist big mouth and his church has fallen apart. How do you interpret this?
I am a former devout, fundamentalist, literalist Christian (pre-trib) who is now, essentially, an atheist. I just needed to get that out of the way so that we are clear from the start.
Anyway, the last church I attended was Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale, which is a wildly popular mega-church in the suburbs of the Ft. Lauderdale metro area. It was founded by the endearing, boy next door, Bob Coy and his wife. In my 3 or 4 years stint there, I watched the church grow exponentially to the point where they moved into three different buildings (including their current location), each time moving into something larger in a mere 2 years. I believe there were about 14,000 people attending that church on a Sunday; a combined total from 3 Sunday services. Even weekday services were packed and for convenience, there was a Saturday service also for those who could not make the Sunday services. Oddly enough, it was the height of my Christian experience and during my time at that church, that I lost my Christian faith (with no regrets, per se) and I have since left that church and religion altogether for years now.
Some time during the early summer, my brother, still living in the area, called me in my new state to ask me if I heard what happened at Calvary Chapel. I was not surprised when he told me a sex scandal brought down Bob Coy. He was been exiled to recover from his alleged "sins." Being that Bob Coy was Calvary Chapel, I really thought that his demise would bring the church down. Apparently the church is still going strong (from what I can tell 1,200 miles away), but from what I knew about Coy and his message, he was about this tender hearted version of Christianity where forgiveness and second chances played a huge role. He always portrayed himself as an imperfect human being and was never really pompous, at least not in the public eye, and I believe this served him well and appears to have allowed people to take a more sympathetic and understanding attitude toward him in his moment of crisis. I also believe, this will also se the stage for him to come back as an example of is own message, so to speak.
Now, contrast him with Mark Driscoll and his current mess. Mark was known for his "masculine," in your face style and unlike Coy, he is practically being run out of town to the joy of some. His whole legacy has unraveled and the ultimate insult is that his church is about to dissolve. So, two large churches on opposite ends of the country, surrounding a popular figure and both with pastors in trouble. One in a sex scandal but his church is thriving and the other, an apparent arrogant, misogynist big mouth and his church has fallen apart. How do you interpret this?
Could be. People may not remember what you said, but they do remember how you treated them - how you made them FEEL in your presence. I do not tolerate the presence of any angry preacher. I don't know why anyone would.
I am a former devout, fundamentalist, literalist Christian (pre-trib) who is now, essentially, an atheist. I just needed to get that out of the way so that we are clear from the start.
Anyway, the last church I attended was Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale, which is a wildly popular mega-church in the suburbs of the Ft. Lauderdale metro area. It was founded by the endearing, boy next door, Bob Coy and his wife. In my 3 or 4 years stint there, I watched the church grow exponentially to the point where they moved into three different buildings (including their current location), each time moving into something larger in a mere 2 years. I believe there were about 14,000 people attending that church on a Sunday; a combined total from 3 Sunday services. Even weekday services were packed and for convenience, there was a Saturday service also for those who could not make the Sunday services. Oddly enough, it was the height of my Christian experience and during my time at that church, that I lost my Christian faith (with no regrets, per se) and I have since left that church and religion altogether for years now.
Some time during the early summer, my brother, still living in the area, called me in my new state to ask me if I heard what happened at Calvary Chapel. I was not surprised when he told me a sex scandal brought down Bob Coy. He was been exiled to recover from his alleged "sins." Being that Bob Coy was Calvary Chapel, I really thought that his demise would bring the church down. Apparently the church is still going strong (from what I can tell 1,200 miles away), but from what I knew about Coy and his message, he was about this tender hearted version of Christianity where forgiveness and second chances played a huge role. He always portrayed himself as an imperfect human being and was never really pompous, at least not in the public eye, and I believe this served him well and appears to have allowed people to take a more sympathetic and understanding attitude toward him in his moment of crisis. I also believe, this will also se the stage for him to come back as an example of is own message, so to speak.
Now, contrast him with Mark Driscoll and his current mess. Mark was known for his "masculine," in your face style and unlike Coy, he is practically being run out of town to the joy of some. His whole legacy has unraveled and the ultimate insult is that his church is about to dissolve. So, two large churches on opposite ends of the country, surrounding a popular figure and both with pastors in trouble. One in a sex scandal but his church is thriving and the other, an apparent arrogant, misogynist big mouth and his church has fallen apart. How do you interpret this?
For how long have you been an Atheist?
I think you correctly interpret religion, but you misunderstand it what is religion.
People attend a mega church because of the personality and charisma of the senior teaching elder. Some for the other social advantages that go with a large congregation. They could just as easily find a smaller congregation with the same leanings in doctrine.
I am a former devout, fundamentalist, literalist Christian (pre-trib) who is now, essentially, an atheist. I just needed to get that out of the way so that we are clear from the start.
Anyway, the last church I attended was Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale, which is a wildly popular mega-church in the suburbs of the Ft. Lauderdale metro area. It was founded by the endearing, boy next door, Bob Coy and his wife. In my 3 or 4 years stint there, I watched the church grow exponentially to the point where they moved into three different buildings (including their current location), each time moving into something larger in a mere 2 years. I believe there were about 14,000 people attending that church on a Sunday; a combined total from 3 Sunday services. Even weekday services were packed and for convenience, there was a Saturday service also for those who could not make the Sunday services. Oddly enough, it was the height of my Christian experience and during my time at that church, that I lost my Christian faith (with no regrets, per se) and I have since left that church and religion altogether for years now.
Some time during the early summer, my brother, still living in the area, called me in my new state to ask me if I heard what happened at Calvary Chapel. I was not surprised when he told me a sex scandal brought down Bob Coy. He was been exiled to recover from his alleged "sins." Being that Bob Coy was Calvary Chapel, I really thought that his demise would bring the church down. Apparently the church is still going strong (from what I can tell 1,200 miles away), but from what I knew about Coy and his message, he was about this tender hearted version of Christianity where forgiveness and second chances played a huge role. He always portrayed himself as an imperfect human being and was never really pompous, at least not in the public eye, and I believe this served him well and appears to have allowed people to take a more sympathetic and understanding attitude toward him in his moment of crisis. I also believe, this will also se the stage for him to come back as an example of is own message, so to speak.
Now, contrast him with Mark Driscoll and his current mess. Mark was known for his "masculine," in your face style and unlike Coy, he is practically being run out of town to the joy of some. His whole legacy has unraveled and the ultimate insult is that his church is about to dissolve. So, two large churches on opposite ends of the country, surrounding a popular figure and both with pastors in trouble. One in a sex scandal but his church is thriving and the other, an apparent arrogant, misogynist big mouth and his church has fallen apart. How do you interpret this?
You're an atheist because you landed in a corrupt church? Does that mean that you are also a Communist or jihadist because the US government is dysfunctional and exponentially more debauched?
It's rather like the old proverb that one has thrown out the baby with the bath water.
GOD is not the same thing as the Church.
At this point I find myself in agreement with much of your argument against the church. An exception or two on my part is that I have considerably more reason to hold a grudge against the false prophets of modern Christendom than you do. But that does not imply, by any stretch of the imagination, that I have turned my back on my spiritual journey. One of the things I learned early on was that the church is not the same thing as God.
Looks like you've closed your mind to spiritual realities as well as the worldly political ones. The latter choice may be wise while the former is not.
Jesus Christ established the church following His resurrection.
Emperor Constantine created Christendom in 313AD.
Two separate entities created by two different men.
The early church, often heralded as the golden age of the gospel, is also referred to as the invisible church. Composed of believers of all faiths, denominations, races and nationalities they form the body of Christ on earth.
Unfortunately, as soon as Constantine decriminalized Christianity, those who saw an opportunity to invest themselves in a new religious bureaucracy wasted no time in organization. Real estate was appropriated (whereas in the book of Acts the saints were asked to divest themselves of real estate), for the "legitimate church" and the Bishop of Rome began to acquire power and influence over the fledgeling corporation. Now called the Pope, this fellow's group eventually was able to muster support for huge building projects as well as to field a considerable number of armies.
Following the Protestant reformation, the "official church" began a decline which has increased in rapidity in recent years. Those who follow Christ in spirit and truth are often as disgusted with the path Christendom has followed as any atheist. The difference is that Christians are wise enough to know the difference between divinity and debauchery.
The godless now lead Christendom and the whole organization appears to be teetering on the verge of collapse - as an official bureaucracy. Europe is now almost completely secularized, even though the lack of donations is not appreciably recognized by Rome. The new Pope there is attempting to restart a new type of marketing campaign, but the effort will prove to be too little too late in practice.
I recommend, dear reader, that true religion be revisited. There's more going on in heaven and on earth that a bunch of corrupt religious perverts.
Jesus saves........in the twenty first century as well as the first.
and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
People attend a mega church because of the personality and charisma of the senior teaching elder. Some for the other social advantages that go with a large congregation. They could just as easily find a smaller congregation with the same leanings in doctrine.
Agreed, but with the church failing to reach much younger people just on "word" alone, the appeal of these large social club type settings with all kinds of bells and whistles are designed to attract said young people.
You're an atheist because you landed in a corrupt church? Does that mean that you are also a Communist or jihadist because the US government is dysfunctional and exponentially more debauched?
It's rather like the old proverb that one has thrown out the baby with the bath water.
GOD is not the same thing as the Church.
At this point I find myself in agreement with much of your argument against the church. An exception or two on my part is that I have considerably more reason to hold a grudge against the false prophets of modern Christendom than you do. But that does not imply, by any stretch of the imagination, that I have turned my back on my spiritual journey. One of the things I learned early on was that the church is not the same thing as God.
Looks like you've closed your mind to spiritual realities as well as the worldly political ones. The latter choice may be wise while the former is not.
Jesus Christ established the church following His resurrection.
Emperor Constantine created Christendom in 313AD.
Two separate entities created by two different men.
The early church, often heralded as the golden age of the gospel, is also referred to as the invisible church. Composed of believers of all faiths, denominations, races and nationalities they form the body of Christ on earth.
Unfortunately, as soon as Constantine decriminalized Christianity, those who saw an opportunity to invest themselves in a new religious bureaucracy wasted no time in organization. Real estate was appropriated (whereas in the book of Acts the saints were asked to divest themselves of real estate), for the "legitimate church" and the Bishop of Rome began to acquire power and influence over the fledgeling corporation. Now called the Pope, this fellow's group eventually was able to muster support for huge building projects as well as to field a considerable number of armies.
Following the Protestant reformation, the "official church" began a decline which has increased in rapidity in recent years. Those who follow Christ in spirit and truth are often as disgusted with the path Christendom has followed as any atheist. The difference is that Christians are wise enough to know the difference between divinity and debauchery.
The godless now lead Christendom and the whole organization appears to be teetering on the verge of collapse - as an official bureaucracy. Europe is now almost completely secularized, even though the lack of donations is not appreciably recognized by Rome. The new Pope there is attempting to restart a new type of marketing campaign, but the effort will prove to be too little too late in practice.
I recommend, dear reader, that true religion be revisited. There's more going on in heaven and on earth that a bunch of corrupt religious perverts.
Jesus saves........in the twenty first century as well as the first.
and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
Where exactly did I say I became an atheist because of a corrupt church?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
