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Per another thread, everyone's favorite Mormon poster suggested I start a new thread. I am asking her...in her own views, or the views of any other Mormons...what doctrines does your religion have that differ from traditional mainstream Christianity?
I do not want to be accused of knowing more about Mormonism than Mormons do....so this is your chance, folks: I want to see your own comments about it. Please educate us....what is different, or special about your beliefs?
Just an early on mod cut to remind everyone that while the OP is a valid one, ANY religious bashing will NOT be tolerated, and will be infracted for. We're looking for fair and constrictive debate and discourse!
Just an early on mod cut to remind everyone that while the OP is a valid one, ANY religious bashing will NOT be tolerated, and will be infracted for. We're looking for fair and constrictive debate and discourse!
ANY religious bashing will NOT be tolerated, and will be infracted for. We're looking for fair and constrictive debate and discourse!
Will this apply to raising issues about true historical facts and questions about doctrines of the faith based on the Book of Mormon and Journal of Discourses?
Joseph Smith:
T or F: Found gold plates left by the angel Moroni that was the Book of Mormon.
T or F: Placed the gold plates into a hat and stuck his face into the hat in order to translate them.
T of F: Was killed in Nauvoo Illinois for ordering the destruction of a newspaper that exposed his polygamy, his marriage to 4 women that were already married to other Mormon men and for having sex with a 12 year old girl he married.
Doctrine:
T or F: God (Elohim) lives on the planet kolob, has multiple wives.
T or F: Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
T or F: Jesus and Lucifer came up with two different plans for salvation, Jesus' plan was accepted, this started a war in Heaven, 1/3 of the angels sided with lucifer and were cast into hell, 1/3 of the angels sided with Jesus and were born white, 1/3 of the angels remained neutral and were born black.
T or F: Jesus was conceived by physical sex between Elohim and the Virgin Mary.
T or F: Jesus had to become a god, devout Mormons can also become gods, have tellestial kingdoms with multiple spirit wives.
Are these or are they not what the Mormons believe?
Per another thread, everyone's favorite Mormon poster suggested I start a new thread.
Moi? Wow, there's something so special about being "everyone's favorite Mormon poster" when you're the only Mormon poster.
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I am asking her...in her own views, or the views of any other Mormons...what doctrines does your religion have that differ from traditional mainstream Christianity?
I do not want to be accused of knowing more about Mormonism than Mormons do....so this is your chance, folks: I want to see your own comments about it. Please educate us....what is different, or special about your beliefs?
Okay... Even though we definitely do have a great many things in common with other Christians, we also have some beliefs that are entirely different from those of most Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Protestants. I'll just begin by listing them and explaining them briefly, but not elaborating on any of them. Then, if you or anyone else would like to explore any of them in greater detail, we can do so.
1. We believe in a Godhead comprised of three divine beings -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. We do not, however, accept the creedal statements and confessions of faith by which traditional Christianity describes the nature of God and the relationship between the members of the Godhead.
2. We believe the Bible to be the word of God, but we do not believe it to contain all of what God has revealed to mankind or a complete record of his interactions with mankind. In addition to the Bible (we generally use the KJV), there are three other books that are part of our canon: The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine & Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price.
3. We believe that Jesus Christ did, in fact, establish His Church as part of His earthly ministry, and organized it as He wanted it to continue to operate after His death. We believe that during the first few centuries after His death, the doctrines He had taught slowly evolved and became tainted with error. We also believe that the authority He gave His Apostles to act in His name was taken from the earth after their deaths. We believe that His Church has been reestablished in this day and age.
4. We believe that the heavens are not sealed and that while revelation between Jesus Christ and His Church did cease for many years, He is once again directing His Church through a living prophet and apostles. Thus, it follows that we, like the Catholics, reject the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
5. We believe in the pre-existence not only of Jesus Christ, but of all mankind. We believe each human being who has ever lived, once lived as a spirit (without a physical body) in God's presence. We believe that He designed a plan whereby we could leave His presence for a period of time and live on this earth with a mortal body. Furthermore, we believe that everyone was given a choice as to whether or not to take part in this plan. If you're here, whether you're a Mormon, a Lutheran, a Muslim or an atheist, you chose to come.
6. We believe that we humans are literally created in the image of God, who is the Father of our spirits. We believe that He wants nothing more than for us to find joy in this life by living righteously, come to the realization that His Son, Jesus Christ was sent here to atone for our sins, and be able to rejoin them in Heaven someday, living eternally with them and with our families.
7. We deny the doctrine of the original sin. We believe that Adam and Eve did disobey God, but that they did so without an understanding of good and evil. It was only when they ate the forbidden fruit that they gained the knowledge necessary that they could be justly held accountable for their future choices. We believe that we have all inherited their mortal traits (among them, the predisposition towards sin) but we do not believe we are born guilty of something Adam did.
8. We believe that when a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not go directly to Heaven. Instead, we believe it resides in a state of either Paradise or Prison/Hell (jointly known as the Spirit World), depending upon how he lived his life. We believe that Jesus Christ's gospel and God's Plan of Salvation is continuing to be taught there by the spirits of those who already know the truth, and that before anyone stands before God to be judged, he will have been given the opportunity to hear, understand, and either accept or reject the gospel. Those who lived at a time or in a place where the true gospel was non-existent will be able to accept it while in the Spirit World.
9. We believe in the eternal nature of families, and that it is God's will that the family unit endure beyond the grave. In other words, I believe that in the next life, I will still be my parents' daughter, my husband's wife and my children's mother. The work we do in our temples (which are different from our churches) is focused on these relationships.
10. If I can think of nine things, I ought to be able to think of an even ten. I'm sure I'll think of the tenth right after the time passes during which I can still edit this post. If anyone else can think of something else they consider to be "a biggie," mention it and I'll make it number ten.
Will this apply to raising issues about true historical facts and questions about doctrines of the faith based on the Book of Mormon and Journal of Discourses?
The Journal of Discourses is not a particularly reliable source of information. It is not and never has been part of the LDS canon.
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Joseph Smith:
T or F: Found gold plates left by the angel Moroni that was the Book of Mormon.
More or less. He was actually shown where the plates were buried. They were said to have the appearance of gold, but were more than likely some kind of an alloy.
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T or F: Placed the gold plates into a hat and stuck his face into the hat in order to translate them.
There are varying accounts of how the translation process took place. One account indicates that he used a hat in order to block out the light from the room and used seer stones to aid in the translation. Other accounts describe an entirely different process. It's likely that several different processes were used.
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T of F: Was killed in Nauvoo Illinois for ordering the destruction of a newspaper that exposed his polygamy, his marriage to 4 women that were already married to other Mormon men and for having sex with a 12 year old girl he married.
Partly true, partly false. He did in fact, order the destruction of a newspaper that was printing anti-Mormon material. There is no evidence that the material had anything at all to do with his polygamy. Joseph was married to quite a number of women besides his first wife, Emma (possibly as many as 40). Some of these marriages were purported to have been to women who were already married. A couple of the women were quite young, but none was as young as 12 years old. Whether you will believe it or not, many of these marriages were considered "spiritual" in nature. These women wanted to be married to Joseph in the next life and believed that a "sealing" done "for time and all eternity" would accomplish this. In all likelihood, most of the marriages were never consummated. Joseph had eight or nine children with Emma, but not a single child with any of the other women he married. Basically, Joseph was murdered (by a band of about 200 men, not a single one of whom was ever prosecuted for the crime) because he founded a new religion that was hated and misunderstood and because he had a sizable following and was perceived as a threat. Polygamy would become a major issue for the Church, but it definitely wasn't at the time Joseph was murdered.
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Doctrine:
T or F: God (Elohim) lives on the planet kolob, has multiple wives.
False. We believe that God lives in Heaven, and that Heaven is a real place. Per the Pearl of Great Price, of all the stars in the sky, one of them is closer to Heaven than the rest. That star has a name by which God refers to it. The name of that star is Kolob. I realize that most of the world's Christians believe that God doesn't actually reside anywhere, but instead fills the universe. That, unfortunately is not what the Bible says. The Bible consistently refers to God as being "in Heaven" and Mormon doctrine is consistent with that. We also believe that God has a female counterpart. As He is our Father in Heaven, She would be our Mother in Heaven. We have been told nothing more about her but that she exists. Multiple wives? Not a doctrine.
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T or F: Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
This one requires more than a quick true or false answer. Like Christians anciently, Mormons believe that all human beings are the offspring of God and that He is the Father of our spirits. (See Acts 17:29 and Hebrews 12:9 if you doubt these doctrines to be biblical.) Unlike traditional Christians, we believe that all of us lived in God's presence prior to being born. We were spirit beings at that time, without bodies of flesh and bones. As the spirit sons and daughters of God, we were all brothers and sisters to each other.
Unique among all the sons of God was the one we know as Jesus Christ. Unlike the rest of us, He was with His Father in the beginning. Unlike us, He was perfect in every conceivable way and had all of the divine attributes and qualities His Father had. The shared a unity of will and purpose to such an extent that together, they were known (along with the Holy Ghost) both individually and collectively, as God. Finally, even though we were all the spirit offspring of our Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ was also His Father's "Only Begotten" Son. Under His Father's direction, Jesus Christ created our universe. He was chosen prior to His birth in Bethlehem to be the lamb who would be slain for our sins.
Another of the spirit sons of God was one named Lucifer. He was a proud and rebellious son who sought to exalt himself above his Father and who was cast out of Heaven for attempting to do so. When Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, he was disowned by his Father, and lost his right to ever again be known as a son of God (or a brother to the greatest of God's sons, Jesus Christ). If Jesus and Satan were sons of the same Father, they were spirit brothers, a fact which in no way reflects positively on Satan or negatively on the Savior of the world.
Mormons, incidentally, did not invent this doctrine. Not by a long shot. In the third century, the Christian writer, Lactantius, wrote:
“Before creating the world, God produced a spirit like himself, replete with the virtues of the Father. Later He made another, in whom the mark of divine origin was erased, because this one was besmirched by the poison of jealousy and turned therefore from good to evil. He was jealous of his older brother who, remaining united with the Father, insured his affection unto himself. This being who from good became bad is called devil by the Greeks.
I don't think most Mormons actually care one way or the other whether other Christians accept this doctrine or not. They would just like people to stop trying to make it look like something its not -- like Mormons somehow see Jesus Christ and Lucifer as equals, when nothing could possibly be further from the truth.
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T or F: Jesus and Lucifer came up with two different plans for salvation, Jesus' plan was accepted, this started a war in Heaven, 1/3 of the angels sided with lucifer and were cast into hell, 1/3 of the angels sided with Jesus and were born white, 1/3 of the angels remained neutral and were born black.
The part about Jesus and Lucifer coming up with two different plans for salvation is roughly true. The plan was actually God the Father's. It was immediately apparent to the Father that as mortals, we would certainly not live perfect lives and would inevitably sin somewhere along the line. He asked for someone to volunteer as the sacrificial lamb, as the one who would atone for our sins and make it possible for all of us to ultimately be reconciled to God. Jesus and Lucifer both volunteered to be our Savior. Jesus wanted to give us our free will, while Lucifer did not. Jesus' plan, therefore, included the possibility that some would not accept His atoning sacrifice, but He was willing to die for everyone nevertheless. He said that all of the glory would subsequently go to the Father. Lucifer assured the Father that he would force everyone to do right, taking away their free will but assuring, in the process, that all would return to God. Of course this obviously got him off the hook when it came to having to take upon our sins. He also insisted that all of the glory would be his and not the Father's. Revelation speaks of a "War" in Heaven. We believe this is what this war was fought over. One third of the host of Heaven sided with Lucifer and were consequently cast out of Heaven along with their leader. They were forever lost to God. The other two-thirds of the host of Heaven sided with Jesus Christ. They would later be born on this earth. Nobody remained neutral and race was never an issue.
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T or F: Jesus was conceived by physical sex between Elohim and the Virgin Mary.
False. Mormons, like all Christians, believe that Mary was a virgin when she conceived and when she gave birth to her firstborn Son, Jesus Christ. Last I knew, a virgin is a woman who has not had sexual relations with a man.
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T or F: Jesus had to become a god, devout Mormons can also become gods, have tellestial kingdoms with multiple spirit wives.
Jesus didn't have to become God. He was God in the beginning. It was he, who under His Father's direction, created our universe.
It's not only Mormons we believe can become gods; all of God's children have this potential. There is considerable evidence that the doctrine of deification was taught for quite some time after the Savior’s death, and accepted as orthodox. Some of the most well-known and respected of the early Christian Fathers made statements to this effect. For example:
In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and then later as Gods?” At about the same period of time, Saint Clement made this statement: “The Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.” And Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.” Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.” And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”
Even the noted Christian theologian, C.S. Lewis, said much the same thing in his book "Mere Christianity."
“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."
Finally, according to The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, “Deification (Greek theosis) is for Orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is made in the image and likeness of God…. It is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become god by grace.”
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Are these or are they not what the Mormons believe?
You got a couple of them right. Hopefully I was able to shed some light on the ones you were wrong about.
Thanks for your answers, a lot of these things I have heard from various sources long before the internet existed. There have been books sold at Zondervan's where I saw most of those things. Citations were given to the Journal of Discourses for a lot of it.
Thanks for your answers, a lot of these things I have heard from various sources long before the internet existed. There have been books sold at Zondervan's where I saw most of those things. Citations were given to the Journal of Discourses for a lot of it.
The Journal of Discourses is a 26-volume set of sermons given by several early leader of the LDS Church (mostly but not exclusively by Brigham Young). I don't know of a single solitary Mormon who has read the entire 26 volumes or is interested in doing so. If you stop to consider how much reading that would be, you can understand why. There is probably a fair amount of material in the Journal of Discourses that is taught in the Church today. Since Brigham Young served as President of the Church, there have been an additional fourteen men who have succeeded him in that role. His sermons touched on many doctrines that are well-known and commonly accepted by members of the Church today. Unfortunately, it's the random statements that are not considered doctrinally binding that non-members seem to zero in on. If Brigham Young (or other early leaders) made 50 or 60 statements that now seem way off-the-wall even to members of the Church, he made tens of thousands of statements that we would wholeheartedly agree with. Of the tens of thousands of his statements we would agree with, the vast majority have been reiterated over the past nearly 200 years by later Church leaders and can be substantiated by the LDS scriptures (The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine & Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price).
1.) Is it true if non Mormon me would marry a Mormon my non Mormon family could not attend the wedding?
There are two kinds of marriage ceremonies in the LDS Church: Civil ceremonies and temple ceremonies. To most Christians, a civil wedding ceremony is a marriage that takes place down at city hall and is performed by a justice of the peace or that takes place on a beautiful beach and is presided over by a friend or family member of the couple. In other words, it's any wedding ceremony that does not take place in a church. Any ceremony that takes place in a church is considered to be a "church wedding." To Mormons, any ceremony that does not take place in one of our 144 (and counting) "temples" throughout the world is a "civil ceremony." Even if it takes place within one of the tens of thousands of Mormon "churches," and is presided over by a Mormon bishop, it's considered a "civil wedding."
Mormon couples are strongly encouraged to marry in one of our temples because we believe that marriages that are performed there are officiated over by an individual who has been given authority by God to make that marriage binding "for time and for all eternity" instead of "until death do you part" or "for as long as you both shall live." Since we believe the family unit is intended by God to be eternal in nature, we are taught from an early age to prepare to marry in one of our temples. There are certain requirements one must meet in order to be married in the temple. It probably goes without saying that both the man and woman must be members of the Church in order to be married in the temple, because among the requirements, is a belief in Mormonism as the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. So, were you as a non-Mormon to marry a Mormon, you would not be able to marry in the temple. You would have to have a "civil ceremony" instead, but your family would be welcome to attend.
If both you and your spouse were Mormons, though, but your parents weren't, and if you wanted to marry in the temple, your parents would not be permitted to attend. You would have the option of having a civil ceremony (i.e. any kind of wedding you wanted, just not in the temple) and then go to the temple at a later date for what would amount to a temple wedding (or "sealing" as we call it). There is currently a one-year waiting period for couples who do not initially marry in the temple to go to the temple and later be "sealed for time and eternity." A later sealing has exactly the same end result as an initial wedding-day sealing. Couples are discouraged from going this route, though, and it is one policy I am personally in disagreement with.
Finally, we believe that a couple married in a civil ceremony is considered to be legally married. A couple is not shunned or anything of the sort if they do not marry initially in the temple. They are, however, encouraged to go back and do so as soon as the one-year waiting period is up. (I'd post a couple of pictures of what a "sealing room" looks like, but it seems I am technologically challenged. I can do so just fine on another forum I post on, but haven't been able to figure out how to do so here. If someone wants to walk me through the process, I'll give it a go.)
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2.) I have only heard jokes about the underwear. Never a serious explanation. Would you give one?
I'd be happy to.
Throughout history, people of various religions have worn sacred clothing that is both special and meaningful to them alone. Often times, this clothing may be visible to others, because it is worn on top of other clothing. Examples of such sacred clothing are beads, shawls, and special head-coverings. In other situations, this special clothing may be worn under one’s outer clothing, next to the skin. The Jewish tallit katan, for example, is a white garment worn under the clothing in remembrance of the Lord’s commandments (see Exodus 19:6, Numbers 15:38 and Deuteronomy 22:12).
Adult members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are encouraged to live in such a manner that they may be worthy of the privilege of attending one of the Church’s 144 operating temples worldwide, and participating in sacred ordinances (i.e. religious ceremonies) there. Among these ordinances are a symbolic washing and anointing and an endowment ceremony which involves both instruction and the making of sacred covenants, or promises, with God. Once an individual has received these ordinances, he is to wear a special undergarment throughout his life. The purpose of this garment is to serve as a constant reminder of the covenants made in the temple, a little bit like a wedding ring is a reminder of the promises made to one’s spouse as part of his wedding vows.
You have undoubtedly heard someone mockingly refer to the temple garment as “magic Mormon underwear,” but you would never hear a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do so. The garment is sacred to us. It is not magic in any sense of the word. While we are told that the garment will be “a shield and a protection” to us, this protection is understood as being of a spiritual nature. When we are wearing the garment, we are conscious of the promises we made to God and are less likely to be tempted to break them. I guess you could say it's a little bit along the same lines as one of the reasons married people wear a wedding band.
The garment is white (with the exception of a khaki version for those in the armed forces), and there are several approved styles and fabrics, for both men and women, all of which require that they be worn with modest clothing. As members of the Church throughout the world know, however, modest does not mean unfashionable, dated or strange. We are instructed to wear the garment day and night. We may, however, remove it to shower or bathe, when having intimate relations with our spouse, and when participating in certain sports which would typically require special clothing, such as a swimming suit.
Last edited by Katzpur; 03-17-2015 at 09:45 PM..
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Wow, there's something so special about being "everyone's favorite Mormon poster" when you're the only Mormon poster. 
If anyone else can think of something else they consider to be "a biggie," mention it and I'll make it number ten.