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The Bread of Life/Living Word is Christ. The written word are only reminders. They are not the Spirit but
when God uses the Scripture to edify or teach then He overlays them with His Spirit to say them afresh out of His mouth with Power to divide soul and spirit. Or in other words, to cut out the nonsense and give Truth.
The law is written but Truth is Power to those of Faith in order to Live the Life of Christ
So would you agree that Jesus is saying that there is something other than the written word that we live by, seeing that Jesus did not say it is written that live by what is written.
This is absurd, the topic itself is inflammatory and clearly mocking. By using the words "revised fundamentalist" isn't it clear that the OP is distinguishing "fundamentalists" from other Christians?
But everyone "revises" scripture, fundamentalists included. If you want to start a thread of verses from the "revised" liberal Bible, I'll contribute some of my own--Jesus did as well, you simply haven't gotten the message.
The entire Sermon on the Mount was about understanding scripture differently from that of the most learned religious men of that day--the Pharisees/Saducees. There are a whole bunch of "But I say unto you's" that said completely the opposite of what was in the OT. Some of those "say unto you's" you believe, but you aren't able to stretch it out to be inclusive of people the way Jesus was.
And, yes, there is an element of scripture worship in the way fundamentalism presents itself. From Britannica Encyclopedia comes these words:
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fundamentalism, type of militantly conservative religious movement characterized by the advocacy of strict conformity to sacred texts.
The danger of fundamentalism is less in how they revise the Bible such as claiming the New Covenant as the reason for not stoning to death adulterers, children who back talk to their parents, or prohibitions against eating shellfish/pork, than it is in their attempt to politically influence this nation's government to impose some of the worst that they choose to RETAIN out of the OT and which certainly do not reflect the life and teachings of Jesus--such as beating on pulpits and proclaiming homosexuals are abominations.
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On the other hand, some scholars have argued that the negative connotations of the term aptly characterize the nature of fundamentalist movements, many of which seek the violent overthrow of national governments and the imposition of particular forms of worship and religious codes of conduct in violation of widely recognized human rights to political self-determination and freedom of worship.
Same source
And don't tell me Christian fundamentalists aren't doing that. There is currently tension between the United States and Uganda because ultra fundamentalist "christian" pastors have flooded into Uganda and preached instilled nothing but terror regarding the "homosexual agenda," so much so that the Ugandan government is reviewing a law that calls for, among other things, the execution of LGBT people for repeat offenses. Why should we not be very harsh with fundamentalists. I'm not going to stand by and see fundamentalists doing that in this nation or calling for the "right" to be intolerant toward anyone they wish.
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Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about “curing” homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda’s capital to give a series of talks.The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.
For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”
Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.
One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.
In November 2012, the speaker of the Parliament of Uganda promised to enact a revised anti-homosexuality bill, providing for harsher penalties against suspected LGBT people and anyone who fails to report them to authorities, including long-term imprisonment and the death penalty for what the law terms "repeat offenders".
Wikipedia
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A Ugandan court struck down a punitive anti-gay law on Friday that has strained Uganda’s relations with the West, but the court ruled on narrow technical grounds, preserving the possibility that the measure could be revived.In front of an overflowing courtroom in Uganda’s capital, Kampala, a panel of five judges announced that the Anti-Homosexuality Act, which punishes some homosexual behavior with life in prison, was invalid because it had been passed by Parliament without a proper quorum.
So, yes, your beliefs are quite dangerous in the opinion of freedom loving people everywhere. I wouldn't hold back on castigating the KKK either--and my own grandfather was part of that organization for awhile as a young man.
I wish I could give you more reputation points but I completely agree. This is a clear example of the nonsense that continues here.
that's right. when a person says "orthodox", then means certain set of rituals. agreeing with them or not doesn't mean it is unchristian. I mean calling me unchristian because I use uniformatiatianism and jesus is ok, but not other rituals. Even I know rituals do not define being good or bad all the time.
So would you agree that Jesus is saying that there is something other than the written word that we live by, seeing that Jesus did not say it is written that live by what is written.
Of coarse and I am surprised that you have not already known this about what I teach. Don't you read closely what I write?
But remember this, the written word in the mouth of a Spirit filled Christion has Power even as when Jesus quoted Scripture to defeat the Devil and all His enemies.
To the unbeliever the written word is only ink and pen because he is not subject the Spirit of Christ/not spiritually minded. The law itself is spiritual and kept by spirit filled people. I am carnal if without Christ but if I am with Christ then the law is my delight. It is written, "The Kingdom of God is the keeping of the commandments."
Faith in Christ obtains for us the Power to be lawful.
Of coarse and I am surprised that you have not already known this about what I teach. Don't you read closely what I write?
But remember this, the written word in the mouth of a Spirit filled Christion has Power even as when Jesus quoted Scripture to defeat the Devil and all His enemies.
To the unbeliever the written word is only ink and pen because he is not subject the Spirit of Christ/not spiritually minded. The law itself is spiritual and kept by spirit filled people. I am carnal if without Christ but if I am with Christ then the law is my delight. It is written, "The Kingdom of God is the keeping of the commandments."
Faith in Christ obtains for us the Power to be lawful.
So what is the word of God that Jesus is talking about ?, bible verses spoken by christians ?.
God does not change but the dare is say it the STUPID and ignorant beliefs ABOUT Him absolutely needed to change AFTER Christ revealed the TRUE NATURE of God. Christ IS "the Spirit of wisdom and revelation" about God in Eph 1:17. . . NOT the Bible.Jesus IS the Spirit since His death and rebirth as Spirit. He is the Comforter promised in His name. I cannot understand how you could think that mere words "written in ink" could be the Spirit or the Living Word of God. Only Christ is the Living Word of God and He abides with us to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
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Originally Posted by garya123
You and Pcamps are so narrowly focused on thinking that we believe that the Bible in and of itself can save, that it makes you blind to any intelligent conversation. All you say about what I have said is false. You both just hate anyone who says that the Scriptures are the words of God but as I have noted, not all of what God wants to communicate to us. The Spirit transforms with and without words. And by words, I mean words that the Spirit anoints to give us understanding on certain matters.
Let me make it plain. Scriptures point us to Christ and once we have Christ, they are for edification, and instruction not for salvation nor Eternal Life.
Even Creation itself speaks to us day after day of the nature and the Glory of God. It is written, "There lines [of Truth] have gone out into all the earth." It is the Spirit that conveys the messages and without word! God is very good at speaking without word and yet we can interpret those thoughts given to us by the Spirit and put them into words. We can then share those things and the Spirit will bless others by the words that we say even as the Scriptures do the same. God has much to say to us without word but also with word and it is the Spirit that conveys both ways.
The fact is, I never said that The Scriptures are Christ or that they in and of themselves can save anyone. The Scriptures as I have said are atypical examples of what God the Father and God the Son is like. But Christ alone can only impart the nature of God to a person and that nature will reflect what the Scriptures say of Christ because He does not change.
Man is mind, body soul and spirit. Not only does the spirit need to grow but the mind also or souls are unbalanced. God gave us the Scriptures to help us grow in mind but it must always be the Spirit/Christ/ Wisdom behind all Christian learning because just having the knowledge of Scriptures is not enough. Head knowledge alone will puff one up but true conversion by the Spirit will use all knowledge for the benefit of others by love.
No Gary we know you do not think the Bible saves and we do not hate you for being wrong about the Bible being the word of God. But believing that human created lie about the Bible has produced the horrible corruptions of Christ's message and revelations about the TRUE NATURE of God. By believing the Bible is the word of God . . . you believe the wrong things about God.
God IS agape love. That is not some casual statement. It is the crux of the misunderstanding of God fostered by reading the OT under the veil of ignorance Christ came to lift. The OT portrays a savage, barbarous and evil God who matches the cultural experiences, minds and beliefs of its ignorant primitive authors. There is truth in the OT as there is throughout the Bible . . . but it must be TESTED against the ONLY standard of truth taught and demonstrated by Christ . . . the Spirit of agape love (who IS God).
You test nothing because of the ridiculous notion that the Bible is the word of God. Your knowledge and understanding of God is corrupted by it . . . not enhanced. Jesus is the ONLY valid example and source of the true nature of God, period. Under the New Covenant Jesus abides with us and is available in our consciousness as the Comforter (Holy Spirit in His name) to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." THAT is the Spirit and the ONLY Spirit that we should follow . . . the Spirit of agape love who IS God.
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Be honest Mystic, did I not say that the Kingdom of God is not in mere words but rather in Power. The words of Scripture explain what the Kingdom of God is like but only Christ is the substance of what that Kingdom is and the root of the Kingdom of God is Love.
Now, if you two and others can not see plainly what I am saying, it will be pointless to have a intelligent conversation with you directly. I would rather just post stand alone comments for the edification of those who can "hear".
I never accused you of any such thing, Gary. But the simple truth of the matter is that as long as you retain the absolutely absurd notion that the Bible is the 100% inerrant, infallible word of God . . . intelligent discussion is not remotely possible. The Bible CONTAINS inspirations from God . . . but it is NOT God's word. It is and always will be man's interpretations of those inspirations, period. Intelligent conversation is not possible with those who engage in magical thinking.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
Gary,Jesus said "it is written that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God".
Answer me this, what does the written word say we should live by, the written word or the word of God, and please tell what you believe is the mouth of God.
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Originally Posted by garya123
I didn't understand at first what you were referring to when you say I doctored Eph 1:17 and now I do.
No, I don't see how I doctored anything. I quoted it exactly for all to see. What you do not like is my expounding on it. I stand by what I said. Yes, indeed Christ is our wisdom and He does speak to us through many sources.
Yes He does but ALWAYS in the Spirit of agape love who IS God. You simply do not get that anything that is NOT compatible with the Spirit of agape love can NOT be from God or Jesus, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123
The Bread of Life/Living Word is Christ. The written word are only reminders. They are not the Spirit but
when God uses the Scripture to edify or teach then He overlays them with His Spirit to say them afresh out of His mouth with Power to divide soul and spirit. Or in other words, to cut out the nonsense and give Truth.
The law is written but Truth is Power to those of Faith in order to Live the Life of Christ
You say these words but do not seem to know what they mean. Christ does NOT overlay the scriptures with His Spirit . . . WE must do so by testing the Spirit of the words "written in ink" against the Spirit of agape love Christ taught and demonstrated and by what God has "written in our hearts."
Not long ago, I picked up a young man hitchhiking. He recently came back from Afghanistan. Our conversation came around to talking about Jesus and he said that from his experience in Afghanistan, his faith was very shaken.
Sometimes I have an enhanced measure of the Spirit for the benefit of others and I can literally/visually see God at work in the Spirit. God put it on my heart to quote that Scriptures that says "Behold I make all things new." I saw the Spirit fill that young man with the Power of New Hope in Christ. It was like he came alive from the dead. He turned to me and said, "
I am so glad that I have met you.
This man got reawakened to the Glory of the Kingdom of Heaven because the written word and the Spirit agree. God speaks afresh with both what has been written and the new.
The right word spoken whether from Scripture or other wholesome words that God lays on your heart, to help another, has Power because it is being spoken by God using your mouth.
The right word spoken whether from Scripture or other wholesome words that God lays on your heart to help another, has Power because it is being spoken by God using your mouth.
Nothing to disagree with there.
People are the mouth of God, as I see it, just as they are the "hands and feet" of Christ.
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