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You DO realize, I hope, that you're quoting Paul's alleged gospel and not Jesus'. Jesus (and James backed him on this and Paul bitterly opposed both James AND Jesus on this) stressed that salvation came by faith + works (obedience to the law). Paul (and not even Paul really since the foundational scripture of faith alone (Ephesians 2:8) wasn't even written by Paul. Ephesians is a psuedoepigraphical (READ: forgery) epistle written by someone who attached Paul's name to it so that he could get his epistle read by the early Christian Church, who thought it was actually Paul who wrote it.
READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY: So the entire foundation of Christian theology---salvation by faith alone---comes from an author whose name we don't even know, some anonymous crank who crawled out from underneath a rock somewhere. More than Paul, this one guy pulled off the biggest theological heist in the history of the entire human civilization by fooling billions of people into abandoning Jesus Christ's teachings and following his theology which he craftily attributed to Paul.
Still anxious to hang your hat on salvation by faith alone knowing this now?
Jesus did not teach salvation by faith plus works. When He spoke with the Samaritan woman He told her that eternal life was a free gift and all she had to do was to ask for it.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
Similarly, in Revelation, given to John by Jesus, the water of life is stated to be without cost.
Rev. 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
On another occasion Jesus was speaking to a crowd and spoke of working not for food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life. But when asked by the crowd what the works of God were that they might do them Jesus simply replied that the work of God was to believe on Him. The crowd thought that there were works that they could do to receive eternal life. But Jesus corrected their thinking by telling them that there was but one 'work', that they could do for eternal life. Believe on Him. The crowd, being Jews under the Mosaic Law thought in terms of doing, of working, and so Jesus used language that they would understand. Therefore He spoke of believing on Him as a work.
John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (ἔργα - erga; plural) of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work (ἔργον - ergon; singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
At the Council at Jerusalem, Peter speaking for the others who were present, including the apostle Paul, stated the following;
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is all that God is free to do for man on the basis of the cross. Grace excludes works. Since salvation is by grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, then works are not a part of attaining eternal life just as Paul stated.
Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Paul stated that we are saved by grace through faith and that grace excludes works. Peter and the others agreed with Paul. Paul, agreeing with Jesus stated that eternal life is a gift. You don't work for a free gift, otherwise it isn't a gift.
Now, you might ask, but what about the rich young ruler who asked Jesus what he must do to attain eternal life (Matthew 19:16-26)? Like the crowd to whom Jesus spoke (John 6:27-29), this man thought he could earn or attain eternal life by doing something. So Jesus answered him by telling him to keep the commandments if he wished to enter into eternal life. But Jesus said this in order to show the man that no one is able to keep the commands perfectly and cannot therefore be saved by keeping the commandments. As Jesus then explained to His disciples, eternal salvation is impossible for man, but possible for God (Matt. 19:25-26).Regarding that issue, James stated that to break the law at one point was to be guilty of breaking the entire law.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
James was not addressing the issue of eternal salvation in his epistle but was addressing the issue of living a productive spiritual life. A completely different issue. James, writing to already eternally saved believers was urging them to be a doer of the word rather than merely a hearer of the word so that they would be saved from having a non-productive spiritual life that had no impact on others. His letter had nothing to do with how to attain eternal life.
Ephesians was written by Paul despite the opinions of perhaps the majority of modern day scholars. On that subject, Dr. Dan Wallace gives the arguments used by scholars to argue against Pauline authorship and shows that those arguments aren't really valid.
Fundamentalists are going to give a free pass to ANYONE who teaches Paul wrote Ephesians. That's just the way of the Christian world.
But Paul did NOT write Ephesians. So may reputable Biblical scholars today stake their reputations on this fact that it has become passé to insist Paul is the author when the entire world of Bible historians know through solid study that he did not.
(sigh) I can see more drastic action is needed here)
Reference the authorship of Ephesians, it cannot be said with certainty that Paul wrote it. NEITHER can it be said that it was not written or at least dictated by Paul. Your sources have no credible evidence. Only theories. Your argument has no more merit than mine. And what of it anyway? Even if you throw out Ephesians you still must contend with Romans, Galatians, Colossians, Philemon, Corinthians, Thessalonians, etc. The primary enemies of Paul are those who want to drag the church back into the Old Covenant. That was done away with when Jesus became our High Priest. You must find a way to discount Romans 3:28, 4:2-5, 5:1, 10:1-4, 10:9-11, 11:6, Gal 2:16, 2:21, 3:2, 3:5-8, 3:19-26, Phil 3:8-9.
The words of our Lord, John 3:15-18, 5:24, 11:25, 12:46, 20:31.
Acts 16:30-31. Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.
Jeremiah spoke of what Paul and the rest of the disciples preached.
Quote:
Jeremiah 31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,
declares the Lord. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
[quote=thomasroane;39718715]Reference the authorship of Ephesians, it cannot be said with certainty that Paul wrote it. NEITHER can it be said that it was not written or at least dictated by Paul. Your sources have no credible evidence. Only theories. Your argument has no more merit than mine. And what of it anyway? Even if you throw out Ephesians you still must contend with Romans, Galatians, Colossians, Philemon, Corinthians, Thessalonians, etc. The primary enemies of Paul are those who want to drag the church back into the Old Covenant. That was done away with when Jesus became our High Priest. You must find a way to discount Romans 3:28, 4:2-5, 5:1, 10:1-4, 10:9-11, 11:6, Gal 2:16, 2:21, 3:2, 3:5-8, 3:19-26, Phil 3:8-9.
The words of our Lord, John 3:15-18, 5:24, 11:25, 12:46, 20:31.
Acts 16:30-31. Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.
Jeremiah spoke of what Paul and the rest of the disciples preached.
Quote:
Jeremiah 31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
<span class="indent-1"> <span class="text Jer-31-32">though I was a husband to them,
Consider the very real possibility ALL have been altered and changed from the original, and that even the original may not have been authentic?
James taught that faith without works is dead. So much for 100% certainty of salvation from eternal torture.
No, you didn't pay attention to what he was saying. There must be evidence in your life of faith. That is basic common sense that anyone should be able to grasp. If you have truly given your life to Christ then there will be change in your life. You will not continue practicing the same sins. It does not mean you can never stumble. But there will be a gradual change in the life of a true Christian.
Quote:
Matthew 12 33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit
James taught that faith without works is dead. So much for 100% certainty of salvation from eternal torture.
James taught that faith without works is dead as in non-productive or useless in the Christians life. Not that the faith doesn't exist or that it is a false faith. The context of James' letter is that the believer (James was writing to believers who had therefore placed their faith in Christ) should not be a hearer of the word only, but also a doer of the word ( James 1:22-23). He acknowledged that they had faith in Christ Jesus (James 2:1). They were therefore eternally saved. The issue that James was addressing was that as believers in Christ Jesus these believers he was writing to should be putting their faith into practice.
The context of James' epistle is that these believers to whom he was writing were catering to those who were oppressing them and taking them to court and they were ignoring the poor. James was therefore exhorting them to show equal treatment to all and not to show partiality.
The word sozo - (salvation, save, deliverance) does not apply only to eternal salvation but often in the Scriptures refers to some kind of temporal deliverance. When James asked ''can that faith save him'' (James 2:14) he was asking if the believer who has no works could be saved from having a non-productive spiritual life devoid of spiritual dynamics. He was not referring to being saved from the penalty of sin. In other words, the issue was not about eternal life, but about having a productive spiritual life as a believer.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-22-2015 at 09:32 AM..
Fundamentalists are going to give a free pass to ANYONE who teaches Paul wrote Ephesians. That's just the way of the Christian world.
But Paul did NOT write Ephesians. So may reputable Biblical scholars today stake their reputations on this fact that it has become passé to insist Paul is the author when the entire world of Bible historians know through solid study that he did not.
(sigh) I can see more drastic action is needed here)
Again, the arguments that scholars base their opinions on concerning the authorship of Ephesians are not really valid. And no, not all modern scholars deny the Pauline authorship of Ephesians though perhaps the majority do, but not for solid reasons.
Reference the authorship of Ephesians, it cannot be said with certainty that Paul wrote it. NEITHER can it be said that it was not written or at least dictated by Paul. Your sources have no credible evidence. Only theories. Your argument has no more merit than mine. And what of it anyway? Even if you throw out Ephesians you still must contend with Romans, Galatians, Colossians, Philemon, Corinthians, Thessalonians, etc. The primary enemies of Paul are those who want to drag the church back into the Old Covenant. That was done away with when Jesus became our High Priest. You must find a way to discount Romans 3:28, 4:2-5, 5:1, 10:1-4, 10:9-11, 11:6, Gal 2:16, 2:21, 3:2, 3:5-8, 3:19-26, Phil 3:8-9.
The words of our Lord, John 3:15-18, 5:24, 11:25, 12:46, 20:31.
Acts 16:30-31. Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.
Jeremiah spoke of what Paul and the rest of the disciples preached.
So, Jeremiah was in on the Paul conspiracy too?
Dragging Jeremiah in to prove Paul wrote Ephsians???? That's just nonsensical.
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