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Nobody is hurt if the two people are consenting adults.
Unless...one of the people is married or otherwise attached to another. Then they are hurting their significant other.
UNLESS, they are in an open relationship allowing for extramarital bed-hopping.
The acts themselves are not immoral: hetero or gay, regular coitus, oral, or anal -- unless those acts hurt, or have the potential to hurt, a third party.
Agree, Finn?
Good, that is what I assumed you thought, which is why I wondered why you insisted I missed the point, when it was actually my own point. There is no differnece in hetero person who is a born fornicator and a gay one. I was born a fornicator, and the only thing I can so is to either satisfy that desire, or not. It is no differnet between heteros or gays. The word of God says fornication is a sin, so our only differnece is the fact that I believe it and you don't. It also says gay sex is a sin, and again I believe it and you don't. I condemn no one by believing it. The word of God also says lying is a sin, and I do not condemn liars by believing it. Do you understand this?
Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food, they think of
it as having been sacrificed to a god; and since their conscience is weak - it becomes defiled.
Who is hurt by two people fornicating in their bedrooms? Who us hurt by adultery if the couple agree to it? It is the same thing, straight or gay. What makes them all wrong, is the immorality of the acts.
Sorry you are impatient for an answer, I have been away from the computer. TroutDude gave you at least a partial answer, and I don't see you responding yet, so maybe I'm not too late.
Yes, the question is about harm done, with adultry it is about harm done to the third party certainly, but there is also harm done to the soul of the person who knowingly harms another. I would question whether in our society today there would not be harm to a relationship even if it were an "open" relationship, but that's for another conversation.
As far as fornication, the harm is more tenuous, depending on the level of commitment to each other of the couple involved. If they are committed and doing something before a ceremonial joining I see no harm, and then it would range in damage to the question of exploiting another person for the sake of sex.
No simple answers, Finn, and I know that would frost you, but that's the world we live in, and each person is responsible for his own walk. If you meet the Buddha on your path, kill him.
As for a committed homosexual relationship, no harm and all good contribution toward a stable, fulfilling relationship.
Good, that is what I assumed you thought, which is why I wondered why you insisted I missed the point, when it was actually my own point. There is no differnece in hetero person who is a born fornicator and a gay one. I was born a fornicator, and the only thing I can so is to either satisfy that desire, or not. It is no differnet between heteros or gays. The word of God says fornication is a sin, so our only differnece is the fact that I believe it and you don't. It also says gay sex is a sin, and again I believe it and you don't. I condemn no one by believing it. The word of God also says lying is a sin, and I do not condemn liars by believing it. Do you understand this?
Romans 2:1
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you
judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
Romans 2:1
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you
judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
Then don't judge. My agreement with the word of God does not judge anyone. Does my agreement with round-earth view judge those who believe in flat earth? No. You need to learn to tolerate different views. After all, intolerance of other peoples views is bigotry.
As a matter of fact, every time you accuse people of unfair judgment, when there is none, you become guilty of what you accuse ofhers of.
Then don't judge. My agreement with the word of God does not judge anyone. Does my agreement with round-earth view judge those who believe in flat earth? No. You need to learn to tolerate different views. After all, intolerance of other peoples views is bigotry.
I can deal with your perceptions, it's just that I disagree with most of them.
Remember, as you mentioned, people once believed the earth was flat.
I just read what Greg Laurie's stance on the newest court ruling.
"Nobody is born a gay," the megachurch pastor said. "One may be tempted with attraction for the same-sex, which can be resisted," he explained, and read out a letter a former lesbian woman wrote to him about how she turned away from homosexuality after her conversion as she listened to his messages on the radio.
I respect him and think he's great, but I am saddened/alarmed/hesitant to believe what he is saying. I believe gays ARE born that way, just as heteros are born that way. So what he is saying, is if you feel that attraction you fight it. Like it's so easy??? What if it's not? What if the opposite sex completely repulses you? You are supposed to not be with anyone for your whole life???? So the lesbian wrote a letter; so she's one person, out of millions, that's great it worked for her, doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
This is what gets me about this. No premarital sex? Fine. I can live with that because I know I will meet someone and (re)marry eventually. (even though I'm 47!!) But a 20 year old who wants to love Jesus but is gay. That poor person! I would hate to be in their shoes!
You shouldn't do either.
We're assuming his theory is right. Nobody is born straight either (I'm not among those who believes inborn tendency theory of homosexuality, so sure whatever). Okay then, let's use that theory.
Suppose I over the course of my life, had a series of experiences that strongly made me attracted to men. Alright then, so is this temptation? From the looks of it, no. Having a desire where you act on it, this would suggest in the way of temptation. A series of experiences, well I'd call that some sort of fate.
By the way, I had a series of bad experiences with men. I am now very definitely not into other men (sorry), so yes this is exactly how things work. This is not to say that we are slaves to events. If I decided I really hated something about women (and men creeped me out alot less), I could conceivably change my preference.
But here's the flaw in the "gays can change" theory. They are asserting that it is a choice. If we have choices to make, another person telling us to make them would not only be a violation of that, but it would be also choice that even if that person made would make them unhappy. How do I know this?
When I was six (as I say, circumstance can cause this) my brother dressed me in girl's clothes. A couple times. At about 11, I began to have thoughts about stuff like this, and during adolescence, I did this off and on. In my 20s, we moved, I no longer really had access to clothes, and had some depression. Then about 29 or 30, I was like "okay, I'm tired of this." I am starting to feel better at 32.
Anyone who makes you feel like crap for being yourself is a jerk and not worth your respect.
Here is the only thing to keep in mind as a gay Christian. Probably no, to premarital sex. And, love not lust, if you have feelings make sure they aren't just a crush.
By the way, there isn't a hard-coded hormonal system, you are interested in anything, you can get aroused. This is why people can get aroused by men, women, multiple partners, animals, and different fetishes.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 07-03-2015 at 04:32 PM..
Good, that is what I assumed you thought, which is why I wondered why you insisted I missed the point, when it was actually my own point. There is no differnece in hetero person who is a born fornicator and a gay one. I was born a fornicator, and the only thing I can so is to either satisfy that desire, or not. It is no differnet between heteros or gays. The word of God says fornication is a sin, so our only differnece is the fact that I believe it and you don't. It also says gay sex is a sin, and again I believe it and you don't. I condemn no one by believing it. The word of God also says lying is a sin, and I do not condemn liars by believing it. Do you understand this?
You twist reality to shape your preconceived notions.
Your reality is foreign to me.
Thank the real God.
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