Tired of Fundamentalism (Jerusalem, born, hell, myths)
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I give a clear reason as to why I am not playing Scripture tag - it is a waste of time - NOT because the Bible is inaccurate.
Yet - you and others lie and misrepresent what I say. So when the boundaries of truth are no longer important - you are on your own.
Just wanted to clear that up - not that it makes any difference to you.
Let's see, YOU are the one who believes the Bible should be taken literally, and THIS is what you posted in #403:
Quote:
God (the Father) has never been seen... nor has anyone ever heard His voice. However, someone is responsible for the earth, the stars, sun, moon, etc... along with the regulated pattern of days, months, seasons, and years. I believe that to be God, and that is taken by faith. ANY belief in how the world began must be taken by faith - as no person was around when it happened. Now it may be faith in God, or faith in someone's man made theory. But however one believes how the beginning started, it is taken by faith.
DRob4JC
THIS is what I posted in response:
According to the Bible--Moses, Aaron, Nadam, Abihu and seventy elders DID see God and lived. It was particularly pertinent that the writer of Exodus (whom fundamentalists believe was Moses himself) stated they ate and drank--hinting that it was in the very presence of the God they SAW.
Quote:
Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
Exodus 24:9-11
But then in the NT it states:
Quote:
No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.
I John 4:12
I'm quite willing to let people decide for themselves who is lying--or, to be generous--hasn't a clue about what Scripture says on the subject. That, too, is a characteristic of fundamentalism. Just look at jeffbase40's post above. He constantly claims we liberals view scripture as we wish--but then goes and does it himself with the idea that he is not being hypocritical. That, too, I leave for others to decide for themselves.
When one creates a book that has to be perfect, then one lives with what the perfect book says. And what it says is---it ain't perfect.
Yes, I am aware of that. My point was that the type of slavery we had here was condemned in the Bible going all the way back to times of the Exodus. If there were Christian slave owners, they should have known their actions would not have been approved by God. Besides, you should not need a Bible to tell you that kidnapping people for lifetime of forced labor is wrong.
Apparently you were never taught why slaves were used in the US for over 200 years with a fundamental bible in one hand and a bull whip in the other...and I am talking about the deep South where they beat and tortured them all the while clinging to their disgusting fundamental bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Right, but if they had read Exodus, they would have known what God thought about their actions. That's all I am saying.
They did have Exodus to read. They just got around it by considering Africans as sub-human animals. You need a serous history lesson.
Why does it take a fundamental bible written over 3000 years ago by non-worldly, unenlightened Iron Age pheasants to realize that slavery was wrong?
How disturbing the human consciousness was back then as well as today to think that reading that fundamental garbage bible was the only way to treat others with love and kindness? It did not work back then and it does not work today.
All the fundamental bible thumper's are what holds back the evolution of human consciousness.
Do you really think that humans don't have the capacity without reading vile, awful, immoral, works like the Bible to treat others with kindness and respect?
If you fail to see all the bad and harm that religion...especially Christianity and Islam have caused for 1000's of years up until today...then your are living in delusion.
Religion, especially fundamentalism and extremism have caused more harm than good in the history of this planet. It is the very thing that breeds hatred, ignorance, intolerance, and dividedness among people. This thread is a perfect example.
Oh please, saddle your boasting. This isn't a smoking gun contradiction. "Seen God" can mean many things and context is very important. John could be talking about seeing God from a spiritual full perspective while Moses saw a physical manifestation of God.
If you are an enemy of the Bible than you are an enemy of God.
So, to paraphrase, there is NO god-n-the-tiny-box outside the bible?
Sounding a lot like King George the II when he mumbled YOU'RE EITHER FOR US OR AGAINST US...and the rest of the world L A U G H E D at us.
I am so grateful and honored that my GOD lives outside the confines of a man-written book that has no supporting evidence that even 35% of the words are even correct.
My GOD is defines by my relationship and understanding of them. My GOD is not so self-absorbed that I live in FEAR 24/7 nor do I have to revere a book and make it an IDOL--because my GOD is a HAPPY GOD and smiles at us mere mortals--my GOD even urges me to THINK, to LOVE and even CARE for the least of us.
Apparently you were never taught why slaves were used in the US for over 200 years with a fundamental bible in one hand and a bull whip in the other...and I am talking about the deep South where they beat and tortured them all the while clinging to their disgusting fundamental bible.
How is it so apparent, when I specifically said God condemns such behavior?
I do not care which books people hold in their hands, or which religion they claim to follow. Either you follow Christ, or you don't. If you torture people, you are not following Him.
Quote:
Why does it take a fundamental bible written over 3000 years ago by non-worldly, unenlightened Iron Age pheasants to realize that slavery was wrong?
That's what I said.
BTW, there is no 'fundamental Bible', there is only the Bible.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-22-2015 at 04:41 AM..
Let's see, YOU are the one who believes the Bible should be taken literally, and THIS is what you posted in #403:
DRob4JC
THIS is what I posted in response:
According to the Bible--Moses, Aaron, Nadam, Abihu and seventy elders DID see God and lived. It was particularly pertinent that the writer of Exodus (whom fundamentalists believe was Moses himself) stated they ate and drank--hinting that it was in the very presence of the God they SAW.
Exodus 24:9-11
But then in the NT it states:
I John 4:12
I'm quite willing to let people decide for themselves who is lying--or, to be generous--hasn't a clue about what Scripture says on the subject. That, too, is a characteristic of fundamentalism. Just look at jeffbase40's post above. He constantly claims we liberals view scripture as we wish--but then goes and does it himself with the idea that he is not being hypocritical. That, too, I leave for others to decide for themselves.
When one creates a book that has to be perfect, then one lives with what the perfect book says. And what it says is---it ain't perfect.
Something is wrong with you. Can you not understand -- "I am not wasting my time"... ??
How can you interpret the Bible properly when you can't understand.. or you refuse to accept these six words? It is totally indicative of how you treat the Bible... you jam in your own interpretation. That's why I am not wasting my time. We are not discussing the contents of the Bible. I am discussing the Bible. You are discussing whatever your own version of the Bible is. Two different things. I am not wasting my time.
How is it so apparent, when I specifically said God condemns such behavior?
I do not care which books people hold in their hands, or which religion they claim to follow. Either you follow Christ, or you don't. If you torture people, you are not following Him.
That's what I said.
BTW, there is no 'fundamental Bible', there is only the Bible.
Something is wrong with you. Can you not understand -- "I am not wasting my time"... ??
How can you interpret the Bible properly when you can't understand.. or you refuse to accept these six words? It is totally indicative of how you treat the Bible... you jam in your own interpretation. That's why I am not wasting my time. We are not discussing the contents of the Bible. I am discussing the Bible. You are discussing whatever your own version of the Bible is. Two different things. I am not wasting my time.
I haven't one bit of interest into whether you want to waste your time or not. Do it or don't.
What I do have an interest in is making sure truth-seekers don't swallow the garbage you are presenting.
Scripture conflicts in scores of places--and has only been "unconflicted" by the stories you and others create in way of explanation--and then make the assumption that your god gave you that explanation.
For those truth seekers, I continue to post. If you are afraid or incapable of debate---and you most certainly are incapable because of the foundation of fundamentalism from which you try to argue--then put my posts on block, because when I see another flawed presentation of scripture, I'm going to point it out--again, and again, and again.
Apparently you were never taught why slaves were used in the US for over 200 years with a fundamental bible in one hand and a bull whip in the other...and I am talking about the deep South where they beat and tortured them all the while clinging to their disgusting fundamental bible.
They did have Exodus to read. They just got around it by considering Africans as sub-human animals. You need a serous history lesson.
Why does it take a fundamental bible written over 3000 years ago by non-worldly, unenlightened Iron Age pheasants to realize that slavery was wrong?
How disturbing the human consciousness was back then as well as today to think that reading that fundamental garbage bible was the only way to treat others with love and kindness? It did not work back then and it does not work today.
All the fundamental bible thumper's are what holds back the evolution of human consciousness.
Do you really think that humans don't have the capacity without reading vile, awful, immoral, works like the Bible to treat others with kindness and respect?
If you fail to see all the bad and harm that religion...especially Christianity and Islam have caused for 1000's of years up until today...then your are living in delusion.
Religion, especially fundamentalism and extremism have caused more harm than good in the history of this planet. It is the very thing that breeds hatred, ignorance, intolerance, and dividedness among people. This thread is a perfect example.
I don't ever believe true Christians treated people in an deplorable manner. There may be people that used the Bible strictly for leverage purposes. Just because people misuse a tool, does not mean the tool is bad. You can stab some with the same pair of scissors used to cut a coupon for a low income family. Doesn't mean we should ban all scissors.
The problem is men, without the presence of God, use the Bible for their own purposes and biases. The fact they use the Bible does indicate its importance in the world. Because if it was totally useless, no one would care about it.
Christianity has caused no harm... maybe out of self defense here and there, but by design our focus is on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit with a view beyond this earth.
I haven't one bit of interest into whether you want to waste your time or not. Do it or don't.
What I do have an interest in is making sure truth-seekers don't swallow the garbage you are presenting.
Scripture conflicts in scores of places--and has only been "unconflicted" by the stories you and others create in way of explanation--and then make the assumption that your god gave you that explanation.
For those truth seekers, I continue to post. If you are afraid or incapable of debate---and you most certainly are incapable because of the foundation of fundamentalism from which you try to argue--then put my posts on block, because when I see another flawed presentation of scripture, I'm going to point it out--again, and again, and again.
How do you witness to someone about Christ where the book that sources Him is inconsistent and has errors? How does that source have any credibility?
Read it? Great. Okay, now, let's talk about your treatment of blacks. Of women. Of gays. Of transgender people.
Who is the you in this sentence? This type of bias and prejudice seems to be precisely the attitude you are advocating against. I would consider myself a 'fundamentalist' and I do not hate anyone. This is a common negative stereotype perpetuated through our society but is as wrong as any other type of prejudice.
As the verse you cited teaches, I aspire to model the love of Christ which means love for all people, even my enemies and those who do evil against me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
These people are not even evil, they are people living their lives. And you have done evil upon them in the name of God. These people have not hurt you, and you have hurt them, for your warped belief that they have somehow corrupted your precious truth.
Again, you are casting wide generalizations without providing any real rationale for your statements. As Christians, we follow and believe in the objective morality of God. What God says is immoral, we also believe is immoral and we refrain from partaking in it. We stand firm in the word of the almighty living God without shame or embarrassment.
The problem is that we live in a society that has deemed moral absolutes as wrong and that our morality is personal and subjective and it is considered offensive to deem someone else's actions as wrong or immoral. This is the symptom of a changing society, not a changing God. God's morality is absolute and unchanging, derived out of His perfect nature.
Isaiah 5:20 says, "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"
As Christians, we believe in sin and judgement, righteousness, holiness, forgiveness and salvation. We are called to show God's love through our actions, but for a purpose, so that those who are lost would turn from sin, repent and become a new creation through Christ.
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