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I didn't say that homosexuality didn't exist 'back then', Jeff. As long as there have been humans homosexuality and every other sexual orientation in between would have existed. What I DID say is that THE BIBLE AUTHORS give NO REFERENCE to homosexuality AS WE TODAY DEFINE THAT TERM!
Geez ...it's like talking to a brick wall!
I repeat for the umpteenth time ...YOU are in complete ignorance regarding the innate sexual predispositions of human beings that present day medical science HAS figured out as best they can. So, how would you expect the ancient authors of scripture to be the experts on what YOU cannot grasp in the year 2019 based on all of the evidence of medical science that is available? You, Jeff, have no idea what you are talking about. NOR would the ancient authors of the Bible have had any idea when it came to this particular topic.
I'm not ignorant at all. I believe your comments are serious gross smoke and mirror distortion of the Word of God. Medical science hasn't proven anything. Only that if you have same sex activity, you run a much much higher risk of contracting diseases. Kinda against nature that way.
BTW, let me remind you that I maturely walked away from this thread and let you have the last word which your side ALWAYS has to do. It's an ego thing, I guess. But NOOOO you had to dig it back up and talk trash against Bible believing Christians. The authors of scripture knew quite well that same sex relations is sin and against God's design.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
You're really wasting my time but I'm the fool for allowing you to!
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Then respectfully agree to disagree and leave it at that. We will never find common ground especially if you think Satan is a fictional character. You might as well throw away the whole Bible.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Romans 1:18-27 (you will notice, Jeff, that we start at verse 18 which leads us up to the actual meaning of verse 26-27) has been discussed over and over on this thread alone. That you haven't caught on by now given the amount of times that it's been presented is not going to change if it's regurgitated once again in its entirety, now is it? Repeatedly covering the same ground really IS a waste of time and effort. You will, however, notice that women are actually mentioned before the men in that text. It states in verse 26 that the women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. What were the women doing in these pagan worship practices that was against nature, Jeff? After this it says, "and likewise also the men ..." What were the men doing in the temple, Jeff, that was 'unnatural'? Don't be coy. We're all adults.
I've read the passage over and over. It still says women exchanged the natural desire for men for UNNATURAL same sex relations. It doesn't matter if they were doing other things or in a temple. God gave up on them and let their hearts fall into sin and perverted acts.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Also bear in mind that Paul said that it was 'against nature' for men to sport long hair. In 1 Corinthians 11.14 where he refers to long hair on men, Paul goes on to make the sentence a negative one:
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
“Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair, it is degrading to him.”
For those interested, there is more pertaining to Paul's 'against nature' mindset here:
And he still since homosexual activity was unnatural too. Deflection does nothing for your argument.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
What I read above is the same crud that I've read so many times previously and countered more times than I can remember. It even regurgitates the crud that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of rampant homosexuality. This has been rebutted more times than I've changed socks.
One only has to look at the gang rape type pervsion that occurs in places like gay bars and bathhouses to see how a culture given over to their own lusts can degrade to such wickness that they would crave to have sex with any male newcomer in town. Homosexuality was obviously going on there a long time to get that point and God finally had enough. Jude confirms it.
"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
I'm not even suggesting that you're on your own when it comes to this subject, Jeff. There are still, I'm sure, many prominent 'men of God' who agree with your stance on this subject. And, to them, regardless as to how 'well respected' they may be, I would still unequivocally say ..."You are wrong."
I'm not on my own Even the great late Billy Graham taught the exact same beliefs.
A cake is a cake, just because you don't agree or care for the people buying one for their wedding is irrelevant. Personally, I don't care for wedding cakes, it's a tradition that doesn't hold that much importance. If you want to make a mountain out of a molehill that's up to you, but it's still discrimination based on your bias or prejudices. After all, you weren't the one getting married? And it is NOT up to you to decide whether someone should or should not have a cake? In addition, I highly doubt that you were invited to the party or ceremony.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Baloney. If a cake is just a cake then go get your wedding cake at Walmart. A cake can be a work of art. Just because you personally have no problem with gay marriage doesn't mean the business owners should check their morals at the door. It's not discrimination if you are demanding that a business owner do something out of the ordinary JUST FOR YOU.
What's the difference? Or, is it a matter of CRUCIFYING them, JUST TO SUIT YOU?
We will never find common ground especially if you think Satan is a fictional character. You might as well throw away the whole Bible.
A fictional parasite like that of Satan and eternal damnation does not usually kill the host it inhabits, as it is critically dependent on it for survival. Instead, it feeds off it and changes its behavior in ways that benefit its own existence.
And I never got an answer to my question. Would Jesus have built a bed or aiding in the prostitute gaining more business? It is a gross perversion of the gospel to suggest that this passage means we should assist in helping people sin because they asked for help. If a bank robber asked for your car, would you give him not only one getaway car, but two? See how silly your argument really is.
ALL of this is in context of your enemies. How you treat your enemies.
If the law of the land is broken, that might make it a different case. Aiding and abetting a thief is different from selling a cake, no? Like it or not, gay marriage is the law of the land. You are not aiding a criminal or a crime here.
Go on and read further. The next group of verses after the previous ones listed in Matthew 5:
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Who is it then that Jesus speaks to here? Who are you to go the extra mile for? People that believe like you?
How is it a silly argument when Jesus says to do this for your enemies? You, Jeff, want to hold to your own doctrine so tight you will tell Jesus to shut up to his face. Is that not dangerous ground to stand on?
and so you are on to something...
how come you can't see what he is saying either?
it is still evil.. he tells us here also.. one of the last instruction in the word is this..
because the Lord believes in liberty and responsibility..
Rev 22:11
Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”
you are not understanding why though I bet.. and yes he tell us to leave these types alone.. and other places he tells us this...
here is some clues to what is really going on ....
1Co 5:5
Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself[fn] will be saved on the day the Lord[fn] returns.
1Ti 1:20
Hymenaeus and Alexander are two examples. I threw them out and handed them over to Satan so they might learn not to blaspheme God.
Rom 12:20
But
If your enemy is hungry, feed him.
If he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
For in so doing
you will be heaping fiery coals on his head.
the not last ... but not least.. as it takes such a huge measure of faith as surely they( the demons in the people) will lash out violently ultimately. but truthfully I have won more lost to the Lord this way than any other.. but it is like standing in the face of a lion.. and not all the Lords children are ready for that.. because we are under his grace to react as we have faith for.. sure we are to bless our enemies.......sin in them is still our enemy..and you think sin in them will not still react? well you are wrong.
Not many Christians can stand in one of those furnaces.. But they will have to learn as Lot did. and also will be accused as Lot was. those people that went for that cake( or whatever it is ) and they didnt just find themselves in court.. were looking for a fight.. and if someone is looking for a fight .. they will make a fight and there will be a lawsuit.. if they were so deternmine to .
Lot tried to stop them.. . even by offering his own daughters to try and make peace with the unquenchable sinners,(
the enemy of men and angels?) men who could not ever be appeased. Not many Christians can stand in that furnace, not as a baby Christian anyway . but the Lord give us options of His most perfect, his good and or his acceptable will of God. he gives us grace.. men do not.. the militant and political fighters will not either..
there is 30 fold, 60 fold and 100 fold. for the good acceptable and perfect will of God. these our rewards for doing his will. and that is a range depending on their level of faith . but 100 can get very very costly!
losing a customer is one thing.. losing your life is another thing completely.
Rom 16:17
And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.
1Th 4:3
God's will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin.
1Th 5:22
Stay away from every kind of evil.
2Th 3:6
And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don't follow the tradition they received from us.
2Th 3:14
Take note of those who refuse to obey what we say in this letter. Stay away from them so they will be ashamed.
2Ti 3:5
They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!
all those people were well within the the Lords " good, acceptable or even the perfect will of God" .. because as best those people could they were doing what they thought God wanted them to do in that minute.. and in those choices.. either way Jesus has grace for all there .. it is men who did not have grace .. but decided to take what was not theirs to take by the use of a corrupted system of laws. .
as you can see it is completely dependant on the level of our faith and to heep burning coals on the demons in an enemies head.. thus brave and faithful all the way to our willingness to Die for Christ.. as so many in history have died for his name for offending the wrong people with the truth..
How do you read scripture and not even know who is being addressed and why? Treating your enemies with love is totally different than church discipline. Paul teaching on church discipline and who should be let out of the group is not even in the same category as what Jesus is teaching here.
And yes, it is all the word of God and useful. But if you think there is a dichotomy within scripture, sorry but Paul was a man and not the son of God incarnate. Will do what Jesus says to do over Paul if it boils down to a scripture vs. scripture debate. Not that I believe they are in conflict, but Paul was teaching to a narrow group in a specific place. Jesus' exhortation is much, much broader here.
Yah...a group of people are so oppressed they've been harassing and trying to destroy the business of bakeries, flower shops and chicken restaurants the last 10 years.
And they claim to be the oppressed. Only in America.
A fictional parasite like that of Satan and eternal damnation does not usually kill the host it inhabits, as it is critically dependent on it for survival. Instead, it feeds off it and changes its behavior in ways that benefit its own existence.
Correction, it is merely your baseless opinion that Satan is a fictional character. Your replies sound like throwing spaghetti against a wall, hoping any of them will stick and make you somehow look superior. You are only going to end up frustrated engaging with me because I'll expose those smoke and mirrors right to the bone.
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