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"Former Southern Baptist, Rod Bennett used to believe that the Catholic Church was the result of the “Great Apostasy.” However, as he was lead to read the works of the earliest Christians, he realized that the Early Church actually resembled Catholic beliefs and traditions! Here he gives a deep look into the early church and the rest of the story of the "Great Apostasy".
Plenty of info out there on why catholicism is off base........any group that claims it's the "one true church" isn't. The only real group of believers on the planet today has no denomination, but is knit together by the Holy Spirit.
There are millions of Kool Aid drinkers out there who will never change their mind, and that's their choice........and it's the Lords job to sort it all out...........
"Vf6cruiser" at least as far as the "one true church" thing apparently the Catholic Church doesn't seem really all that exclusive---it believes that all who are baptized in water (and the Holy Spirit) in the name of the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" and strive to live in love of God and their neighbor are STILL ultimately "brothers (and sisters) in Christ" even if sadly separated from full union with the church.
here's a worthwhile quote from probably about a hundred years ago (way before "Vatican 2")---
"the holy and humble...who do not know (the church) or in GOOD FAITH reject (it)...she commits with CONFIDENCE to God's uncovenanted MERCIES which....are INFINITE."
and....
"all we know is that God has an infinite LOVE for souls, and that He possesses a thousand Divine secrets of reaching them and that His MERCY is a fathomless sea, whose limit one must NEVER think has been attained."
doesn't really sound that bad---especially coming from "kool aid drinkers"---does it?
hopefully you will also hope and pray for the same kind of mercy for yourself, me, and ALL who strive to live a life of love for God and their neighbor and accept the same ultimate brotherhood in the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship and unity of the Holy Spirit for Catholics as they do for you and yours---in Christian charity!!!
may God bless you and love you and help us all to know and do what is right.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 10-07-2015 at 09:51 AM..
Reason: more info.
You can listen to the podcast here on why the early Church was never broken and how it still can trace it's founding to the very beginning.
I'm afraid I don't have time for podcasts, janelle, but I can appreciate your dedication to your faith. (I doubt you'd be all that interested in listening to an entire LDS podcast on the subject either.) I've just read too many things that have convinced me that the early Church really did fall into apostasy -- just as Paul predicted it would
If you want to present a point or two (or as many points as you want, just one at a time) from the podcast and present it as evidence, I'd be happy to debate that specific point with you.
I'm not aware of Jesus stating that the Roman Catholic church would always exist and that it would never be broken. I agree, Janelle. There have always been believers, just as he protected the nation of Israel even as it went into exile. But to make the claim that the RCC is God's chosen church is kind of arrogant.
Vizio, think that to the best of my poor knowledge at least as far as scripture records Jesus did NOT personally even use the term "Christian" (to describe His followers) or the word "Trinity" (to show his relationship with His Father and the Holy Spirit) or even spoke the name "bible" (as a means of finding His word in one particular collection of writings) and followers of Christ use any or all of those words to explain and understand who they are and what they believe. the fact that He didn't specifically use "Catholic" to name the church he did found (...upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.") is not an especially big deal and in fact a bit of a "straw man" (or is it a "red herring", LOL)---unless you are also seriously wanting to purge words like I just mentioned from any discussion EVEN if you hold the beliefs those words associate with since they are not specifically used by Jesus in the bible???
Catholics believe that Jesus founded a visible Church (aka "the body of Christ" see Ephesians 1:23) to continue His work of salvation and reconciliation ("as the Father sent ME, so I send YOU") to preserve and spread the gospel ("one faith, one Lord, one baptism" Ephesians 4: 4-6)),and teach all peoples "onto the ends of the earth". they also believe that the faith of Christ and of the church He founded most fully "SUBSISTS in the Catholic Church governed by the successor of St. Peter AND the bishops in communion with him---although MANY aspects of sanctification and truth are found outside of it's VISIBLE structure!!!"(quote from "lumen gentium" one of the Vatican 2 documents).
I would strongly suggest a least a quick read through of the essentially non-partisan and non-sectarian Wikipedia article "subsistit in" (yes, that's the phrase used in the original Latin document) for a detailed analysis and explanation of the meaning and implications of those words (translated in English as "subsists in") in regards to just how the Catholic Church sees itself and it's mission and it's relations to other Christians. you may or may not "buy" anything contained therein but conversion is not what this discussion is about---simply an informed and charitable UNDERSTANDING of where Catholics and their church are really "coming from" and (hopefully) going to.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 10-07-2015 at 01:42 PM..
Reason: more info.
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