The Apostasy what Wasn't--- (church, Revelation, believe, exodus)
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I'm not aware of Jesus stating that the Roman Catholic church would always exist and that it would never be broken. I agree, Janelle. There have always been believers, just as he protected the nation of Israel even as it went into exile. But to make the claim that the RCC is God's chosen church is kind of arrogant.
Dear viz,
The quote is not that the "Roman Catholic church would always exist", but the church built upon the rock of revelation, which was "because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven".
The actual quote is "My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it."(Mt 16:18) This is with respect to the sons of God, who do the will of God, and have the Spirit of God, and "you do not need for any one to teach you:" (1 John 2:27). Whereas the Roman Catholic church, whose creeds and dogmas were initially set at the Council of Nicaea, convened by the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, is not that church. That church rides on the back of the beast whose 7th head established it, and it's leaders are the false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd" (Zech 11:17)/Peter, followed by his successor the pope, who shall "in that day", "fall", and those hanging onto him shall be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:25).
Whether one is of the Roman catholic church or one of her daughters, one still needs to "come out of her", lest they share in her plagues (Rev 18:4).
The rock the church is built on, as shown in Matthew 7:24-25, is to heed the testimony of Yeshua/spirit of Revelation (Rev 19:10). The Spirit of Revelation is the rock, and the testimony of Yeshua is that Spirit. The babel of Paul, is the seed of the "evil one" and gets to grow up beside the good seed, which is the "word of the kingdom" (Mt 13:19). It is not until now, the "end of the age", in which those who "commit Lawlessness"/Paul, the ripe tares from that seed, are gathered and cast into the fire. (Mt 13:40-42) The "many" follow the false prophets, but the only thing that waits for them is "destruction" (Mt 7:13)
Dear viz,
The quote is not that the "Roman Catholic church would always exist", but the church built upon the rock of revelation, which was "because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven".
The actual quote is "My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it."(Mt 16:18) This is with respect to the sons of God, who do the will of God, and have the Spirit of God, and "you do not need for any one to teach you:" (1 John 2:27). Whereas the Roman Catholic church, whose creeds and dogmas were initially set at the Council of Nicaea, convened by the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, is not that church. That church rides on the back of the beast whose 7th head established it, and it's leaders are the false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd" (Zech 11:17)/Peter, followed by his successor the pope, who shall "in that day", "fall", and those hanging onto him shall be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:25).
Whether one is of the Roman catholic church or one of her daughters, one still needs to "come out of her", lest they share in her plagues (Rev 18:4).
The rock the church is built on, as shown in Matthew 7:24-25, is to heed the testimony of Yeshua/spirit of Revelation (Rev 19:10). The Spirit of Revelation is the rock, and the testimony of Yeshua is that Spirit. The babel of Paul, is the seed of the "evil one" and gets to grow up beside the good seed, which is the "word of the kingdom" (Mt 13:19). It is not until now, the "end of the age", in which those who "commit Lawlessness"/Paul, the ripe tares from that seed, are gathered and cast into the fire. (Mt 13:40-42) The "many" follow the false prophets, but the only thing that waits for them is "destruction" (Mt 7:13)
I'm sorry...I don't believe that Jesus was speaking about the RCC when he said "the church". That was my point. Nor do I believe he guaranteed that the RCC would exist without error.
I wonder how many think Paul and Peter are worthless? Both were martyred for God and for spreading Christianity.
I believe Christ was talking about the RCC plus the other billion Catholics in the world or most of them do. It's been around for over 2,000 years. The Holy Spirit said it will last until the end of time.
You don't believe that but I do. That is my right.
I wonder how many think Paul and Peter are worthless? Both were martyred for God and for spreading Christianity.
I believe Christ was talking about the RCC plus the other billion Catholics in the world or most of them do. It's been around for over 2,000 years. The Holy Spirit said it will last until the end of time.
You don't believe that but I do. That is my right.
The Jewish "Church" has been around far longer and Jesus was a part of it. Does that mean that "Church" is the true one because it has been around a long time, or is it wrong because its religious leaders left true belief, listened to secular rulers and obeyed them, brought in their own traditions and incorporated pagan worship practices into it and .... well how does the Catholic Church differ? It doesn't.
The Jewish "Church" has been around far longer and Jesus was a part of it. Does that mean that "Church" is the true one because it has been around a long time, or is it wrong because its religious leaders left true belief, listened to secular rulers and obeyed them, brought in their own traditions and incorporated pagan worship practices into it and .... well how does the Catholic Church differ? It doesn't.
Where is pagan worship in any of it? The Catholic Church does not deny the Jewish faith, that is where it comes from and Jesus is the Messiah.
Ephesians 1:22-23 (NKJV)
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
-The church is the body of Jesus Christ, of which HE is the head and The RCC follow its own commands and the Pope is the head.
Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
-This is saying that the rock to build the church on is Jesus Christ, not the formation of the RCC or the Pope.
The Jewish "Church" has been around far longer and Jesus was a part of it. Does that mean that "Church" is the true one because it has been around a long time, or is it wrong because its religious leaders left true belief, listened to secular rulers and obeyed them, brought in their own traditions and incorporated pagan worship practices into it and .... well how does the Catholic Church differ? It doesn't.
There is NO Chruch established by Jesus the Christ. Wherever three or more are gathered in His name, that is called the ecclesia (misnamed Church). There is no hierarchy among the ecclesia by Christ's direct prohibition . . . "He who would be first . . ." Everything the churches have done supposedly in Christ's name has been counter to His explicit wishes. Men have made rules and institutions that have no resemblance to the ecclesia Jesus envisioned for His disciples. It is all human vanity and hubris writ large.
Well no Protestant Church until 1500 and that is a long time to be without the word of God. It's impossible to believe God would reveal His word to us and then let it fall into ruin.
Like the author of the book says, he started to question when so many churches started saying they had found the truth, at last.
I wonder how many think Paul and Peter are worthless? Both were martyred for God and for spreading Christianity.
I believe Christ was talking about the RCC plus the other billion Catholics in the world or most of them do. It's been around for over 2,000 years. The Holy Spirit said it will last until the end of time.
You don't believe that but I do. That is my right.
First of all -- no, the RCC has not been around for 2000 years. That's a baseless claim.
Second of all....even if that WERE the case, there is nothing in scripture to suggest that it could not teach error. We know that even in the 1st Century there were false teachers infiltrating the church. That's why Peter and Paul and the other apostles wrote epistles -- to counter the false teachings. It's also why Paul confronted the guy your church claims was the pope and corrected his error.
The fact is, if we compare the teachings of your church with the inspired teachings of the apostles we see some problems. Why should we believe your church, and your church's leaders, over them?
There is NO Chruch established by Jesus the Christ. Wherever three or more are gathered in His name, that is called the ecclesia (misnamed Church). There is no hierarchy among the ecclesia by Christ's direct prohibition . . . "He who would be first . . ." Everything the churches have done supposedly in Christ's name has been counter to His explicit wishes. Men have made rules and institutions that have no resemblance to the ecclesia Jesus envisioned for His disciples. It is all human vanity and hubris writ large.
You have something right.
The word ekklesia is congregation or the congregated believers not a "Church" as an organized group with a head standing in for Christ. Would it be organized with a leadership, yes, as Acts 15 shows. It would not have Titles used when addressing a person, bowing and a kissing of rings, pomp and ceremony, special garb, the exalting of one man, etc.
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