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You forget that He said He had the power to take up His life again, to resurrect from the dead.
Hmmm. I disagree. John 5:26 states, "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself." And John 15:16 says, "All things that the Father hath are mine." I'm not saying that His Father didn't give Him that power, because I believe He did. As a matter of fact, the scriptures say that His Father gave Him all that He had. So, once He had been given power over death, He had that power himself. He also had the power himself to perform miracles, which He did.
See the words--- the Father hath given.) Last line Lords prayer--- The KINGDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father. Acts 2:22 is how it works.
It was the same with Moses--Moses did not part the red sea--Jehovah did it through him.
See the words--- the Father hath given.) Last line Lords prayer--- The KINGDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father. Acts 2:22 is how it works.
It was the same with Moses--Moses did not part the red sea--Jehovah did it through him.
I know how it works. When you give someone something, it belongs to him.
Moses wasn't Jesus. He wasn't in the same league at all. Nobody is or ever will be. God the Father gave His Son the power to rise from the dead of his own volition, and His Son used that power to do His Father's will. Moses never had any power in and of himself. He was a prophet, not a deity.
Just so that you understand my position, though, I do believe that Jesus Christ is in a subservient position to His Father. I believe that to have been the case in the beginning, prior to the creation of the world, during Christ's lifetime and today, where He sits at His Father's side. I believe that everything Jesus does, He does in order to please and honor His Father. After all, He did refer to His Father, not only as "my Father," but as "my God." I don't believe in the "co-equal" stuff you'll find in the Creeds.
I know how it works. When you give someone something, it belongs to him.
Moses wasn't Jesus. He wasn't in the same league at all. Nobody is or ever will be. God the Father gave His Son the power to rise from the dead of his own volition, and His Son used that power to do His Father's will. Moses never had any power in and of himself. He was a prophet, not a deity.
Just so that you understand my position, though, I do believe that Jesus Christ is in a subservient position to His Father. I believe that to have been the case in the beginning, prior to the creation of the world, during Christ's lifetime and today, where He sits at His Father's side. I believe that everything Jesus does, He does in order to please and honor His Father. After all, He did refer to His Father, not only as "my Father," but as "my God." I don't believe in the "co-equal" stuff you'll find in the Creeds.
That's the point---If Jesus were God--he already would have it all and no one could give it to him--God is eternal king--Jesus had to be appointed( Daniel 7:13-15) by the ancient of days = YHWH(Jehovah). Then Jesus has to hand the kingdom back-1Cor 15:24-28) and subject himself to his God and Father.--God doesn't have a God--Jesus does.
That's the point---If Jesus were God--he already would have it all and no one could give it to him--God is eternal king--Jesus had to be appointed( Daniel 7:13-15) by the ancient of days = YHWH(Jehovah). Then Jesus has to hand the kingdom back-1Cor 15:24-28) and subject himself to his God and Father.--God doesn't have a God--Jesus does.
I agree with most of what you have said, but it almost sounds as if you believe that God was incapable of begetting a Son who was also God. If you do, I'm afraid our conversation is over, because that appears to be our main point of disagreement.
I agree with most of what you have said, but it almost sounds as if you believe that God was incapable of begetting a Son who was also God. If you do, I'm afraid our conversation is over, because that appears to be our main point of disagreement.
Gods Born on December 25
Answer 1
Chrishna, of India, born on December 25, 3228 BC, his mother was a virgin, mother’s name was Maia. The name Chrishna means Black or Dark. His uncle, Kamsa, the ruler at the time of his birth sought to kill him (Chrishna) because he had heard a Prophecy that Chrishna would overthrow him. Chrishna escaped death by being smuggled out of the area to safety (sounds like Herod and Jesus does it not?). [COMMENT: Crishna’s story and Jesus’ story fit together like a hand and a glove.]
Mithra, of Persia, born on December 25, before 1500 BC, his birth was witnessed by Shepherds that brought gifts to honor him. He was styled as a Mediator between God and Man. Witness this quote from the Encyclopedia Encarta, “Mithraism was similar to Christianity in many respects, for example, in the ideals of humility and brotherly love, baptism, the rite of communion, the use of holy water, the adoration of the shepherds at Mithra’s birth, the adoption of Sundays and of December 25 (Mithra’s birthday) as holy days, and the belief in the immortality of the soul, the last judgment, and the resurrection. Mithraism differed from Christianity in the exclusion of women from its ceremonies and in its willingness to compromise with polytheism. The similarities, however, made possible the easy conversion of its followers to Christian doctrine” (“Mithraism,” Microsoft (R) Encarta. Copyright (c) 1994 Microsoft Corporation. Copyright (c) 1994 Funk & Wagnall’s Corporation).
Horus, of Egypt, born on December 25, before 2500 BC. His mother, Isis, gave birth to him in the swamp, she was warned by the god Thoth, to flee and conceal the child from the evil Set. Set had killed the father of Horus, whose name was Osiris, and sought to kill Horus, |also. Isis was able to keep Horus hidden from Set, till he (Horus) grew to manhood. Horus sought to avenge the murder of his Father, and made war against Set, and defeated him.
Buddha, of India, born on December 25, 563 BC, his mother’s name was Maya (similar to Mary) she was a virgin. He was immaculately conceived, and at birth, he announced that he was a savior to the world. His birth was announced by a star. At his birth, he was visited by Wise Men who declared that they had seen Signs of his birth, that is to say, signs of the royal birth (coincidence?). [COMMENT: On the surface, it definitely looks like a coincidence. But when one considers how much of the Buddha’s teaching Jesus claimed as his own, it becomes clear that the whole Buddha story was appropriated my Jesus himself — or at least by his church.]
Beddou (Fot), was a god of the orient born 1027 BC, his mother was a virgin, he was born of royal blood. The king sought to kill him at birth,
because he felt the newborn infant posed a future threat to his Throne. The god child was saved by shepherds, and lived in the desert till he reached the age of thirty, at which time he commenced teaching his spiritual doctrine to that religion.
Quetzalcoatl, a god of the Western Hemisphere, was born of a virgin around 900 BC. He sojourned in the wilderness, fasted forty days. Was crucified. He was variously represented as the God of light that struggled against the god of darkness called Tezcatlipoca.
Hercules, son of the god Zeus, born around 500 BC, predestined by birth to inherit the throne of Argos. Hera, the jealous wife of Zeus desired the throne for another and sought to delay the birth of Hercules, and subsequently tried to kill Hercules while in his crib, by sending two snakes to strangle him. Hercules killed the snakes, though he was less than a year old. Later, He was sent away to the countryside where he became a shepherd.
Attis, of Phrygia, born around 1200 BC, his mother was a virgin, her name was Nana. He was a shepherd, and reported to have died by self emasculation under a pine tree. He was alleged to have risen from the dead at Easter i.e. The vernal Equinox.
Tammuz, born before 2600 BC, was hailed as the only begotten son of the god Ea. His mother was a virgin, by the name of Ishtar. As an infant he was hidden in a chest by Aphrodite, the goddess of love and entrusted to Persephone, the goddess of the nether world. Persephone later opened the chest, and was so stricken by the beauty of the babe, that she refused to return the child to Aphrodite. The two goddesses fought each other for possession of the child, till finally the god Zeus mediated the matter, and declared that the child shall spend half it’s year with Aphrodite and the other half in the nether world with Persephone.
However, it is now argued by scientists that jesus was not born on dec. 25th, in fact, not even in the winter, some time in October or fall
Answer 2
Here are just a few, all born of virgins too.
Augustus (his father was the god Apollo) Agdistis Attis
Adonis Buddha Dionysus
Korybas Krishna Mithras
Osirus Perseus Romulus and Remus
Tammuz Zoroaster Jesus
Chrishna, of India, born on December 25, 3228 BC, his mother was a virgin, mother’s name was Maia. The name Chrishna means Black or Dark. His uncle, Kamsa, the ruler at the time of his birth sought to kill him (Chrishna) because he had heard a Prophecy that Chrishna would overthrow him. Chrishna escaped death by being smuggled out of the area to safety (sounds like Herod and Jesus does it not?). [COMMENT: Crishna’s story and Jesus’ story fit together like a hand and a glove.]
Mithra, of Persia, born on December 25, before 1500 BC, his birth was witnessed by Shepherds that brought gifts to honor him. He was styled as a Mediator between God and Man. Witness this quote from the Encyclopedia Encarta, “Mithraism was similar to Christianity in many respects, for example, in the ideals of humility and brotherly love, baptism, the rite of communion, the use of holy water, the adoration of the shepherds at Mithra’s birth, the adoption of Sundays and of December 25 (Mithra’s birthday) as holy days, and the belief in the immortality of the soul, the last judgment, and the resurrection. Mithraism differed from Christianity in the exclusion of women from its ceremonies and in its willingness to compromise with polytheism. The similarities, however, made possible the easy conversion of its followers to Christian doctrine” (“Mithraism,” Microsoft (R) Encarta. Copyright (c) 1994 Microsoft Corporation. Copyright (c) 1994 Funk & Wagnall’s Corporation).
Horus, of Egypt, born on December 25, before 2500 BC. His mother, Isis, gave birth to him in the swamp, she was warned by the god Thoth, to flee and conceal the child from the evil Set. Set had killed the father of Horus, whose name was Osiris, and sought to kill Horus, |also. Isis was able to keep Horus hidden from Set, till he (Horus) grew to manhood. Horus sought to avenge the murder of his Father, and made war against Set, and defeated him.
Buddha, of India, born on December 25, 563 BC, his mother’s name was Maya (similar to Mary) she was a virgin. He was immaculately conceived, and at birth, he announced that he was a savior to the world. His birth was announced by a star. At his birth, he was visited by Wise Men who declared that they had seen Signs of his birth, that is to say, signs of the royal birth (coincidence?). [COMMENT: On the surface, it definitely looks like a coincidence. But when one considers how much of the Buddha’s teaching Jesus claimed as his own, it becomes clear that the whole Buddha story was appropriated my Jesus himself — or at least by his church.]
Beddou (Fot), was a god of the orient born 1027 BC, his mother was a virgin, he was born of royal blood. The king sought to kill him at birth,
because he felt the newborn infant posed a future threat to his Throne. The god child was saved by shepherds, and lived in the desert till he reached the age of thirty, at which time he commenced teaching his spiritual doctrine to that religion.
Quetzalcoatl, a god of the Western Hemisphere, was born of a virgin around 900 BC. He sojourned in the wilderness, fasted forty days. Was crucified. He was variously represented as the God of light that struggled against the god of darkness called Tezcatlipoca.
Hercules, son of the god Zeus, born around 500 BC, predestined by birth to inherit the throne of Argos. Hera, the jealous wife of Zeus desired the throne for another and sought to delay the birth of Hercules, and subsequently tried to kill Hercules while in his crib, by sending two snakes to strangle him. Hercules killed the snakes, though he was less than a year old. Later, He was sent away to the countryside where he became a shepherd.
Attis, of Phrygia, born around 1200 BC, his mother was a virgin, her name was Nana. He was a shepherd, and reported to have died by self emasculation under a pine tree. He was alleged to have risen from the dead at Easter i.e. The vernal Equinox.
Tammuz, born before 2600 BC, was hailed as the only begotten son of the god Ea. His mother was a virgin, by the name of Ishtar. As an infant he was hidden in a chest by Aphrodite, the goddess of love and entrusted to Persephone, the goddess of the nether world. Persephone later opened the chest, and was so stricken by the beauty of the babe, that she refused to return the child to Aphrodite. The two goddesses fought each other for possession of the child, till finally the god Zeus mediated the matter, and declared that the child shall spend half it’s year with Aphrodite and the other half in the nether world with Persephone.
However, it is now argued by scientists that jesus was not born on dec. 25th, in fact, not even in the winter, some time in October or fall
Answer 2
Here are just a few, all born of virgins too.
Augustus (his father was the god Apollo) Agdistis Attis
Adonis Buddha Dionysus
Korybas Krishna Mithras
Osirus Perseus Romulus and Remus
Tammuz Zoroaster Jesus
Gods Born on December 25
Answer 1
Chrishna, of India, born on December 25, 3228 BC, his mother was a virgin, mother’s name was Maia. The name Chrishna means Black or Dark. His uncle, Kamsa, the ruler at the time of his birth sought to kill him (Chrishna) because he had heard a Prophecy that Chrishna would overthrow him. Chrishna escaped death by being smuggled out of the area to safety (sounds like Herod and Jesus does it not?). [COMMENT: Crishna’s story and Jesus’ story fit together like a hand and a glove.]
Mithra, of Persia, born on December 25, before 1500 BC, his birth was witnessed by Shepherds that brought gifts to honor him. He was styled as a Mediator between God and Man. Witness this quote from the Encyclopedia Encarta, “Mithraism was similar to Christianity in many respects, for example, in the ideals of humility and brotherly love, baptism, the rite of communion, the use of holy water, the adoration of the shepherds at Mithra’s birth, the adoption of Sundays and of December 25 (Mithra’s birthday) as holy days, and the belief in the immortality of the soul, the last judgment, and the resurrection. Mithraism differed from Christianity in the exclusion of women from its ceremonies and in its willingness to compromise with polytheism. The similarities, however, made possible the easy conversion of its followers to Christian doctrine” (“Mithraism,” Microsoft (R) Encarta. Copyright (c) 1994 Microsoft Corporation. Copyright (c) 1994 Funk & Wagnall’s Corporation).
Horus, of Egypt, born on December 25, before 2500 BC. His mother, Isis, gave birth to him in the swamp, she was warned by the god Thoth, to flee and conceal the child from the evil Set. Set had killed the father of Horus, whose name was Osiris, and sought to kill Horus, |also. Isis was able to keep Horus hidden from Set, till he (Horus) grew to manhood. Horus sought to avenge the murder of his Father, and made war against Set, and defeated him.
Buddha, of India, born on December 25, 563 BC, his mother’s name was Maya (similar to Mary) she was a virgin. He was immaculately conceived, and at birth, he announced that he was a savior to the world. His birth was announced by a star. At his birth, he was visited by Wise Men who declared that they had seen Signs of his birth, that is to say, signs of the royal birth (coincidence?). [COMMENT: On the surface, it definitely looks like a coincidence. But when one considers how much of the Buddha’s teaching Jesus claimed as his own, it becomes clear that the whole Buddha story was appropriated my Jesus himself — or at least by his church.]
Beddou (Fot), was a god of the orient born 1027 BC, his mother was a virgin, he was born of royal blood. The king sought to kill him at birth,
because he felt the newborn infant posed a future threat to his Throne. The god child was saved by shepherds, and lived in the desert till he reached the age of thirty, at which time he commenced teaching his spiritual doctrine to that religion.
Quetzalcoatl, a god of the Western Hemisphere, was born of a virgin around 900 BC. He sojourned in the wilderness, fasted forty days. Was crucified. He was variously represented as the God of light that struggled against the god of darkness called Tezcatlipoca.
Hercules, son of the god Zeus, born around 500 BC, predestined by birth to inherit the throne of Argos. Hera, the jealous wife of Zeus desired the throne for another and sought to delay the birth of Hercules, and subsequently tried to kill Hercules while in his crib, by sending two snakes to strangle him. Hercules killed the snakes, though he was less than a year old. Later, He was sent away to the countryside where he became a shepherd.
Attis, of Phrygia, born around 1200 BC, his mother was a virgin, her name was Nana. He was a shepherd, and reported to have died by self emasculation under a pine tree. He was alleged to have risen from the dead at Easter i.e. The vernal Equinox.
Tammuz, born before 2600 BC, was hailed as the only begotten son of the god Ea. His mother was a virgin, by the name of Ishtar. As an infant he was hidden in a chest by Aphrodite, the goddess of love and entrusted to Persephone, the goddess of the nether world. Persephone later opened the chest, and was so stricken by the beauty of the babe, that she refused to return the child to Aphrodite. The two goddesses fought each other for possession of the child, till finally the god Zeus mediated the matter, and declared that the child shall spend half it’s year with Aphrodite and the other half in the nether world with Persephone.
However, it is now argued by scientists that jesus was not born on dec. 25th, in fact, not even in the winter, some time in October or fall
Answer 2
Here are just a few, all born of virgins too.
Augustus (his father was the god Apollo) Agdistis Attis
Adonis Buddha Dionysus
Korybas Krishna Mithras
Osirus Perseus Romulus and Remus
Tammuz Zoroaster Jesus
Ignoring the irrelevant date of December 25th, this is an excellent start on revealing the evolution of the template for spiritual understanding of God in the spiritual fossil record.
Constantine started the whole mess in an attempt to reconcile warring presbyters who had opposing viewpoints on Jesus' nature---was he man, god, or a man/god? Constantine hoped that by making him both man AND god he'd settle all the infighting. Constantine was nothing if not a practical pagan emperor.
Blessed are the peacemakers
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