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That's the least common (and longest--people complain that the Nicene is too long) creed out of the 3 major creeds of the early church. The Apostles Creed is well known from the Rosary, but it's more properly used in its original place in the baptismal rite. The Nicene, most common, is mandatory on Sundays, optional on liturgical weekdays, to testify against the Arian heresy.
and FWIW (and in case no one has already brought this up) the "Arian" heresy is the contention that Jesus (aka God the Son) is NOT equal to and co-eternal with God the Father but instead a created entity brought forth at some point in time and as a result eliminating any concept of a "trinity" in the orthodox sense.
Yes. He is superior to me in the hierarchy, but not ontologically.
The NIV translates it as "being". It's hard to come up with a solid word for it, but it's clear from the text that they are not 2 distinct Gods.
They are separate persons, with individual wills. They are not the same person -- just as you and I are not the same person. We each have our own will. The difference though, is that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all the same God and they are all the same being.
I think we're truly talking past each other Vizio. To me, a person is a being. You are one person; I am another person. Another way of saying this is that you and I are two separate human beings. Why would one being pray to himself? Why would one being talk about going to where he already is? "God" is what we know the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as. They are united as "one God." I'm with you on that, Vizio. It's your terminology I'm having a hard time with.
I think we're truly talking past each other Vizio. To me, a person is a being.
I recognize that. But Biblically speaking it is not.
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You are one person; I am another person. Another way of saying this is that you and I are two separate human beings. Why would one being pray to himself?
At the time, Jesus was a man on Earth. That's how men communicate with God the Father.
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Why would one being talk about going to where he already is?
Jesus the man was not in Heaven at the time. God the Son was not in Heaven, he was on Earth.
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"God" is what we know the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as. They are united as "one God."
Not only that, but the Bible states they are one being.
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I'm with you on that, Vizio. It's your terminology I'm having a hard time with.
I know. I get that. I respect that. We do have some differences in beliefs.
and FWIW (and in case no one has already brought this up) the "Arian" heresy is the contention that Jesus (aka God the Son) is NOT equal to and co-eternal with God the Father but instead a created entity brought forth at some point in time and as a result eliminating any concept of a "trinity" in the orthodox sense.
I was going to mention that also about the Arian heresy, part of the heresy is the fact of Jesus is NOT equal to God the Father.
When men completely ignorant about consciousness tried to reconcile the "precepts and doctrines of men" about Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit that had been created out of human vanity and hubris. They eventually gave up trying to reconcile their ignorance and proclaimed it a mystery. They have been trying to defend it ever since.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
I recognize that. But Biblically speaking it is not.
At the time, Jesus was a man on Earth. That's how men communicate with God the Father.
Jesus the man was not in Heaven at the time. God the Son was not in Heaven, he was on Earth.
Not only that, but the Bible states they are one being.
I know. I get that. I respect that. We do have some differences in beliefs.
More of the incoherent attempts to justify the absurd based on complete ignorance of the concept of consciousness which defines personhood.
I recognize that. But Biblically speaking it is not.
Show me, Vizio. Show me where "Biblically speaking," a person is not a being.
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At the time, Jesus was a man on Earth. That's how men communicate with God the Father.
But why does a single "being" need to communicate with itself at all?
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Jesus the man was not in Heaven at the time. God the Son was not in Heaven, he was on Earth.
And yet you're going to insist that the same being was both non-corporeal and "in Heaven" at the same time as it was corporeal on "on Earth." And, beyond that, you're going to insist that this is an entirely logical assumption!
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Not only that, but the Bible states they are one being.
Where? Where? Where?
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I know. I get that. I respect that. We do have some differences in beliefs.
Yes, but what we're talking about is not the beliefs so much as it is terminology. When you can show me where the Bible states that the Father and the Son are "one being," we can perhaps move on. Until then, we appear to be at a standstill, because I know of no such verse.
More of the incoherent attempts to justify the absurd based on complete ignorance of the concept of consciousness which defines personhood.
Probably people find it absurd because it has do more with this:
The person without the SpiritdoesnotacceptthethingsthatcomefromtheSpiritofGodbut considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because theyarespiritually discerned
For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-25-2016 at 01:40 PM..
Isaiah 6:8 "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"—
Genesis 1:26 "Let us make man in our own image"
Genesis 3:22 "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil."
Genesis 11:7 in which God says, "Let us go down and confuse their language."
Since there is only one God, who is called God?
The Father of God is called God
Galatians 1:1, Revelations 1:6
The Son of God is called God
John 1:1: 20:28, Rom 9:5, 1 John 5:20
The Spirit of God is called God in Acts 2:2-4
Acts 5:2-4 (liedto)
Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit ... You have not lied just to human beings but to God.
Matthew 12:32,Mark 3:29 (blasphemed against)
Mark 13:2 -11: (He speaks)
Acts 7:51 (He has been historically resisted)
Acts 20:23 (He warns)
Belief in the doctrine of the Trinity is one of "thethingsthatcomefromtheSpiritofGod"
Where KJV "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" ....
Where KJV"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
Where KJV "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
If that's supposed to be an answer to my question to Vizio, "Where does the Bible state they are one being?" I'm afraid you've just failed. The verse you've quoted (three times ) does not even mention the word "being," which is the word I'm trying to zero in on. It merely states that the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, which I agree is the case. Furthermore, the verse refers only to the Son. If we're talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost existing as "one being" or as "three beings," quoting a scripture that mentions only one of them is simply meaningless as an answer to my question.
Last edited by Katzpur; 02-25-2016 at 02:30 PM..
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) does not even mention the word "being," which is the word I'm trying to zero in on. It merely states that the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, which I agree is the case. Furthermore, the verse refers only to the Son. If we're talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost existing as "one being" or as "three beings," quoting a scripture that mentions only one of them is simply meaningless as an answer to my question.