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More of the incoherent attempts to justify the absurd based on complete ignorance of the concept of consciousness which defines personhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Probably people find it absurd because it has do more with this:
The person without the SpiritdoesnotacceptthethingsthatcomefromtheSpiritofGodbut considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because theyarespiritually discerned
For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
This misunderstanding of the intent of this verse os why so many fundamentalists celebrate ignorance, superstition and lack of intelligence as if God is pleased by them. A travesty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Belief in the doctrine of the Trinity is one of "thethingsthatcomefromtheSpiritofGod"
Belief in the doctrine of the Trinity is one of "thethingsthatcomefrom the ignorance of our ancestors' lack of knowledge of consciousness as the essence of personhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Where KJV "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" ....
Where KJV"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
Where KJV "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
"For in him dwelleth all the consciousness of the Godhead bodily."
"For in him dwelleth all the consciousness of the Godhead bodily."
"For in him dwelleth all the consciousness of the Godhead bodily."
If that's supposed to be an answer to my question to Vizio, "Where does the Bible state they are one being?" I'm afraid you've just failed. The verse you've quoted (three times ) does not even mention the word "being," which is the word I'm trying to zero in on. It merely states that the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, which I agree is the case. Furthermore, the verse refers only to the Son. If we're talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost existing as "one being" or as "three beings," quoting a scripture that mentions only one of them is simply meaningless as an answer to my question.
First he has to understand that Jesus stated that he had a father and a G-d and it was the same father and G-d that they had, that's why he called them his brothers, then, once he undestands that, then he can comprehend the other things based off of that simple understanding...
First he has to understand that Jesus stated that he had a father and a G-d and it was the same father and G-d that they had, that's why he called them his brothers, then, once he undestands that, then he can comprehend the other things based off of that simple understanding...
There is absolutely nothing that you can remotely say that one needs to hear that requires an understanding from a religion that Jesus said of those who rejected him as the promised Messiah and his claim about being God:
"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
If that's supposed to be an answer to my question to Vizio, "Where does the Bible state they are one being?" I'm afraid you've just failed. The verse you've quoted (three times ) does not even mention the word "being," which is the word I'm trying to zero in on. It merely states that the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, which I agree is the case. Furthermore, the verse refers only to the Son. If we're talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost existing as "one being" or as "three beings," quoting a scripture that mentions only one of them is simply meaningless as an answer to my question.
"Godhead" \ "Deity" aka Trinity is your allusive "being" word.
In other words this:
God in three persons and three persons in one God, without mixing the persons or dividing the divine being. For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and coeternal in majesty.
And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons.
Whoever wishes to be saved must have this conviction of the Trinity.
and for those who want an explanation of Jesus the Godman, this:
It is furthermore necessary for eternal salvation truly to believe that our Lord Jesus Christ
also took on human flesh. Now this is the true Christian faith: We believe and confess that
our Lord Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is both God and man. He is God, eternally begotten from
the nature of the Father, and he is man, born in time from the nature of his mother, fully God,
fully man, with rational soul and human flesh, equal to the Father as to his deity, less than
the Father as to his humanity; and though he is both God and Man, Christ is not two persons
but one, one, not by changing the deity into flesh, but by taking the humanity into God; one,
indeed, not by mixture of the natures, but by unity in one person; for just as the rational
soul and flesh are one human being, so God and man are one Christ.
This is the true Christian faith.
Whoever does not faithfully and firmly believe this cannot be saved.
"Godhead" \ "Deity" aka Trinity is your allusive "being" word.
In other words this:
God in three persons and three persons in one God, without mixing the persons or dividing the divine being. For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and coeternal in majesty.
And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons.
Whoever wishes to be saved must have this conviction of the Trinity.
and for those who want an explanation of Jesus the Godman, this:
It is furthermore necessary for eternal salvation truly to believe that our Lord Jesus Christ
also took on human flesh. Now this is the true Christian faith: We believe and confess that
our Lord Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is both God and man. He is God, eternally begotten from
the nature of the Father, and he is man, born in time from the nature of his mother, fully God,
fully man, with rational soul and human flesh, equal to the Father as to his deity, less than
the Father as to his humanity; and though he is both God and Man, Christ is not two persons
but one, one, not by changing the deity into flesh, but by taking the humanity into God; one,
indeed, not by mixture of the natures, but by unity in one person; for just as the rational
soul and flesh are one human being, so God and man are one Christ.
This is the true Christian faith.
Whoever does not faithfully and firmly believe this cannot be saved.
When I asked for a quote from the Bible, I didn't mean that a quote from the Creeds would do just as well.
When I asked for a quote from the Bible, I didn't mean that a quote from the Creeds would do just as well.
Colossians 2:9 is that verse ... as was stated earlier, the word "Godhead" \ Deity (aka Trinity) is the "being" that you are looking for which the Athanasian Creed as best as possible makes it's apologetics.
The "Godhead" "being" references to HIMSELF in the PLURAL while at the same time a speaks as the SINGULAR God.
Isaiah 6:8 "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"—
.............. Singular ^^^^^
............................................Plural ^^^^^^^
Nobody but yourself has to read it enough times till it registers with you. Colossians 2:9 + Isaiah 6:8
Colossians 2:9 is that verse ... as was stated earlier, the word "Godhead" \ Deity (aka Trinity) is the "being" that you are looking for which the Athanasian Creed as best as possible makes it's apologetics.
The "Godhead" "being" references to HIMSELF in the PLURAL while at the same time a speaks as the SINGULAR God.
Isaiah 6:8 "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"—
.............. Singular ^^^^^
............................................Plural ^^^^^^^
Nobody but yourself has to read it enough times till it registers with you. Colossians 2:9 + Isaiah 6:8
"Godhead" \ "Deity" aka Trinity is your allusive "being" word.
In other words this:
God in three persons and three persons in one God, without mixing the persons or dividing the divine being. For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and coeternal in majesty.
And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons.
Whoever wishes to be saved must have this conviction of the Trinity.
and for those who want an explanation of Jesus the Godman, this:[indent][i]It is furthermore necessary for eternal salvation truly to believe that our Lord Jesus Christ
also took on human flesh. Now this is the true Christian faith: We believe and confess that
our Lord Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is both God and man. He is God, eternally begotten from
the nature of the Father, and he is man, born in time from the nature of his mother, fully God,
fully man, with rational soul and human flesh, equal to the Father as to his deity, less than
the Father as to his humanity; and though he is both God and Man, Christ is not two persons
but one, one, not by changing the deity into flesh, but by taking the humanity into God; one,
indeed, not by mixture of the natures, but by unity in one person; for just as the rational
soul and flesh are one human being, so God and man are one Christ.
This is the true Christian faith.
Whoever does not faithfully and firmly believe this cannot be saved.
I truly believe this ^^^^ with all my heart !! Believing the Trinity is the mark of one who walks with no doubt within their heart, fully trusting the Father who is a genuine follower of Jesus Christ !!
I remember the day as if it were yesterday when I was just reading the word (young believer) didn't even know about the Trinity had not even heard a Sermon about it and so in my overly excitement as a new believer always in the word reading that Col.2:9 the Holy Spirit opened my eyes and revealed the Trinity= God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit = One !
No man taught nor persuaded my heart to believe what the Spirit did that day for me. That is why I believe no one can teach another to believe nor understand it, it is all the work of the Spirit in the heart of one who believes God with ALL (no doubt whatsoever found within them) their body, mind, and spirit !
After that day the word of God all fell into place in my life and a beautiful flow of connecting the Three as One began that I never had before that day !
That is why in all the years I've been in this Christianity Forum I have never entered in and tried too explain it to help someone to understand the Trinity. It is definitely the work of the Spirit to open the heart of one to believe !
Also this is why I agree with your statement Twin, "This is the true Christian faith. Whoever does not faithfully and firmly believe this cannot be saved ."
I have talked with many of Christian' and there has been doctrine disagreements but when it came to the Trinity there was no disagreement . I knew then that one though we disagreed about whatever, there was such a deep agreement between each other that, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit= One !
Pray God open your heart to this truth of God, because He surely will and I know this with all my heart, amen !
>>And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons. >>
RESPONSE:
Let's see. One member of the Trinity is unbegotten and proceeds from none other.
One is begotten and proceeds from the Father.
The third proceeds from both the Father and the Son.
But they are all co-equal, just different???? How can that be???? If things are really "co-equal" nothing in them is different. What makes them not coequal are their differences. Common sense.
>>Whoever wishes to be saved must have this conviction of the Trinity."
RESPONSE:
This is one of those fundamenalist "only Christians in heaven" claims. No Jews, No Moslems, No Buddists, etc need apply. Some people actually believe this!
The reason the Trinity theory had to be developed was that if Jesus was really divine, then there are at least two Gods. Calling them "different persons" doesn't change that. "Hear O Israel, the Lord is One" Even Jesus said that!
"Godhead" \ "Deity" aka Trinity is your allusive "being" word.
In other words this:
God in three persons and three persons in one God, without mixing the persons or dividing the divine being. For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and coeternal in majesty.
And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons.
Whoever wishes to be saved must have this conviction of the Trinity.
and for those who want an explanation of Jesus the Godman, this:
It is furthermore necessary for eternal salvation truly to believe that our Lord Jesus Christ
also took on human flesh. Now this is the true Christian faith: We believe and confess that
our Lord Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is both God and man. He is God, eternally begotten from
the nature of the Father, and he is man, born in time from the nature of his mother, fully God,
fully man, with rational soul and human flesh, equal to the Father as to his deity, less than
the Father as to his humanity; and though he is both God and Man, Christ is not two persons
but one, one, not by changing the deity into flesh, but by taking the humanity into God; one,
indeed, not by mixture of the natures, but by unity in one person; for just as the rational
soul and flesh are one human being, so God and man are one Christ.
This is the true Christian faith.
Whoever does not faithfully and firmly believe this cannot be saved.
Then there is the thief on the cross--He neither affirmed any TRINITY, confess that GOD was one, that the Holy Spirit was UPON him or the Christ was divine..YET HE WAS SAVED..
What up wit that?
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) does not even mention the word "being," which is the word I'm trying to zero in on. It merely states that the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, which I agree is the case. Furthermore, the verse refers only to the Son. If we're talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost existing as "one being" or as "three beings," quoting a scripture that mentions only one of them is simply meaningless as an answer to my question.
