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I thought I'd grab 1 Kings 14:24 from a number of Bible versions and present them here:
New International Version
There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
New Living Translation
There were even male and female shrine prostitutes throughout the land. The people imitated the detestable practices of the pagan nations the LORD had driven from the land ahead of the Israelites.
English Standard Version
and there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel.
New American Standard Bible
There were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD dispossessed before the sons of Israel.
King James Bible
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
there were even male cult prostitutes in the land. They imitated all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had dispossessed before the Israelites.
International Standard Version
They even maintained male shrine prostitutes throughout the land, and imitated every detestable practice that the nations practiced whom the LORD had expelled in front of the Israelis.
NET Bible
There were also male cultic prostitutes in the land. They committed the same horrible sins as the nations that the LORD had driven out from before the Israelites.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
There were even male prostitutes in the temples of idols throughout the land. The people of Judah did all the disgusting practices done by the nations that the LORD had forced out of the Israelites' way.
JPS Tanakh 1917
and there were also sodomites in the land; they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD drove out before the children of Israel.
New American Standard 1977
And there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD dispossessed before the sons of Israel.
Jubilee Bible 2000
And there were also male cult prostitutes in the land, and they did according to all the abominations of the Gentiles which the LORD had cast out before the sons of Israel.
King James 2000 Bible
And there were also male prostitutes in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
American King James Version
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
American Standard Version
and there were also sodomites in the land: they did according to all the abominations of the nations which Jehovah drove out before the children of Israel.
Douay-Rheims Bible
There were also the effeminate in the land, and they did according to all the abominations of the people whom the Lord had destroyed before the face of the children of Israel.
Darby Bible Translation
and there were also sodomites in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that Jehovah had dispossessed before the children of Israel.
English Revised Version
and there were also sodomites in the land: they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD drave out before the children of Israel.
Webster's Bible Translation
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
World English Bible
and there were also sodomites in the land: they did according to all the abominations of the nations which Yahweh drove out before the children of Israel.
Young's Literal Translation
and also a whoremonger hath been in the land; they have done according to all the abominations of the nations that Jehovah dispossessed from the presence of the sons of Israel.
As I mentioned previously, read Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 regarding man lying with man. Equate these texts with 'abomination' and connect the dots. The Leviticus texts DO NOT refer to homosexuality per se but to male cult prostitutes!
And so it should be - over and over again - if we're ever to get to the truth.
Do you really believe the absolute truth matters here? ... at this point in the discussion in dealing with events thousands of years in the past?
The truth is probably somewhere in between the two extremes. Homosexuality was part of the problem, but not the entire problem. The Bible highlighted part of the problem and it included homosexuality.
Do you agree that homosexuality is at least part of the issue?
Fundamentalists love clinging to their bible-backed bigotry and refuse to allow truth, reality, or empathy to wreck it for them.
They feel justified in hating those they've decided their god hates.
It's why fundies are all about the OT godling and rarely, if ever, talk about Jesus. The hating, murdering, vengeful, Dr. Destructo god is their kinda guy.
And so it should be - over and over again - if we're ever to get to the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Do you really believe the absolute truth matters here? ... at this point in the discussion in dealing with events thousands of years in the past?
Well, this is a forum and every few weeks the very same discussions often come up initiated by those who evidently missed the previous exact same thread. And, those of us who participated in the exact same previous thread once again cover the same ground on the new thread in the hope that the initiator of the thread will become enlightened with new knowledge on the topic. I have no idea if this actually works. But, it's the nature of forums, I guess, and it at least keeps some of us off of the streets.
Yes, these were events that occurred thousands of years ago ...IF they occurred at all. BUT, Sodom and Gomorrah are still popular with anti-gay Christians. They continue to use this story to point out to gay people that God hates them so much that He will destroy entire cities if need be just to get rid of them. And, it's therefore the chosen task of some of us to tell the truth about the biblical story of S&G to, 1. let the traditional Christian believers know that they've been duped by their leaders about S&G, and 2. assure gay people that 'they' are not responsible for the destruction of S&G after all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
The truth is probably somewhere in between the two extremes. Homosexuality was part of the problem, but not the entire problem. The Bible highlighted part of the problem and it included homosexuality.
But it didn't! This is my whole point for participating in these exact same threads. Plus it keeps ME off of the streets and away from annoying people although I think I might make up for this by annoying a few certain people on the forum . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Do you agree that homosexuality is at least part of the issue?
No, I don't. I've read all Bible references regarding Sodom and Gomorrah and I can't find references to homosexuality at all. Yes, I know the part about all the people from the city (men, women and, apparently children) crowding around Lot's door wanting to 'know' Lot's visitors but I really have no words to describe what that particular weird scene was all about! If anyone can explain to me in detail what was going on there I'll die a happy man . . .
Jesus said it's a man and a woman, and made no provisions for anything else.
Yes, but the sin of homosexual sex (mentioned by Jesus indirectly and by Paul directly; although Jesus would not have frowned upon celibacy and Paul taught celibacy as great and better for Gentiles) and the sin of adultery and the sin of fornication and the sin of looking at a woman with lust and the sin of mixing different threads in fabric and the sin of not getting circumcised would have all been the same level of blasphemy against God to a Jew. The only unforgivable sin being blasphemy (insulting God: a catch phrase for all sin). The only rule is loving God and neighbor: a catch phrase in Bibliolatry for following all 600ish commandments and adding in any other good things for God and neighbor that one can come up with. Paul was really the one that did away with following the ancient rules written about "joining the chosen" saying Christians didn't have to join into Judaism to be Christian, that accepting Jesus as the Last Messiah/God was all they needed to do (since the Jewish prophecies included something about the Messiah passing the challis of servitude and suffering to the Gentiles as vengeance for their ancestors treatment of Jews, not converting all Gentiles/World into Jews).
Conservatives need the story of Sodom and Gomorrah to justify two core beliefs.
1) That homosexuality is a worse sin than all of the others
2) That God will destroy any society that tolerates it, so you better vote for them and they will take care of the "gay problem."
Naw, that was already justified in Leviticus:
'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
Lev. 18-22-25
The sin is seen as so bad before God that it cursed the land itself.
Well, this is a forum and every few weeks the very same discussions often come up initiated by those who evidently missed the previous exact same thread. And, those of us who participated in the exact same previous thread once again cover the same ground on the new thread in the hope that the initiator of the thread will become enlightened with new knowledge on the topic. I have no idea if this actually works. But, it's the nature of forums, I guess, and it at least keeps some of us off of the streets.
Yes, these were events that occurred thousands of years ago ...IF they occurred at all. BUT, Sodom and Gomorrah are still popular with anti-gay Christians. They continue to use this story to point out to gay people that God hates them so much that He will destroy entire cities if need be just to get rid of them. And, it's therefore the chosen task of some of us to tell the truth about the biblical story of S&G to, 1. let the traditional Christian believers know that they've been duped by their leaders about S&G, and 2. assure gay people that 'they' are not responsible for the destruction of S&G after all!
But it didn't! This is my whole point for participating in these exact same threads. Plus it keeps ME off of the streets and away from annoying people although I think I might make up for this by annoying a few certain people on the forum . . .
No, I don't. I've read all Bible references regarding Sodom and Gomorrah and I can't find references to homosexuality at all. Yes, I know the part about all the people from the city (men, women and, apparently children) crowding around Lot's door wanting to 'know' Lot's visitors but I really have no words to describe what that particular weird scene was all about! If anyone can explain to me in detail what was going on there I'll die a happy man . . .
Funny Jude 1:7 says nothing about inhospitality being the sin of Sodom. Instead it mentions sexual perversion and in some translations, it says going after strange or unnatural flesh. Care to explain that one? At the very least, you have to admit that at least part of their sin was sexual in nature.
'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
Lev. 18-22-25
The sin is seen as so bad before God that it cursed the land itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Funny Jude 1:7 says nothing about inhospitality being the sin of Sodom. Instead it mentions sexual perversion and in some translations, it says going after strange or unnatural flesh. Care to explain that one? At the very least, you have to admit that at least part of their sin was sexual in nature.
Like I said, bible-backed bigotry.
Yay, hateful god!!
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