Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment."
Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Compare with King James
Quote:
King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Half the translations make belief in Jesus a criteria for eternal life, while the other half make obedience the criteria for eternal life. That's problem No 1.
According to the literal interpretation of this verse those who don't receive salvation by whatever means suffer annihilation and God's wrath remains on their memory even after they are annihilated. ("the wrath of God abideth on him")
But the larger problem is that those who don't either believe in Jesus or obey him (depending on which translation you grow up with) do not inherit eternal spiritual life. That means they inherit eternal spiritual death according to how the Holy Spirit dictated the words to whoever wrote this contradicting passage. The passage then, specifically states that God will annihilate those who don't obey Jesus, or who don't believe in Jesus, take your pick.
Proof positive it's not universal redemption or eternal torment for unrepentant sinners but complete and total annihilation.
Quote:
John 3:16—"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
Indeed that is what the Bible says. As you pointed out it is good to use more than one translation of the Bible. Because sometimes the idea that the Bible writer was trying to get across doesn't cross over quite as well from Hebrew or Greek into English. Well done!
Further scriptural support of your assessment.
“faith follows the thing heard.” - Romans 10:17
"So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead." James 2:17
Half the translations make belief in Jesus a criteria for eternal life, while the other half make obedience the criteria for eternal life. That's problem No 1.
According to the literal interpretation of this verse those who don't receive salvation by whatever means suffer annihilation and God's wrath remains on their memory even after they are annihilated. ("the wrath of God abideth on him")
But the larger problem is that those who don't either believe in Jesus or obey him (depending on which translation you grow up with) do not inherit eternal spiritual life. That means they inherit eternal spiritual death according to how the Holy Spirit dictated the words to whoever wrote this contradicting passage. The passage then, specifically states that God will annihilate those who don't obey Jesus, or who don't believe in Jesus, take your pick.
Proof positive it's not universal redemption or eternal torment for unrepentant sinners but complete and total annihilation.
True, but those who want people to burn in torment will disagree.
Psalm 1:3-6 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. 4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Matthew 18:14 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Romans 2:12 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Acts 8:20 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Here perish means to cease to exist, be destroyed:
3134 avpo,llumi ***. avpole,sw and avpolw/, mid. avpolou/mai; 1aor. avpw,lesa; 2aor. mid. avpwlo,mhn; second perfect avpo,lwla; (1) active ruin, destroy; (a) of persons destroy, kill, bring to ruin (MT 2.13); (b) with an impersonal object destroy, bring to nothing (1C 1.19); (c) of a reward lose, be deprived of (MT 10.42), opposite thre,w (maintain, keep); (2) middle be ruined, be destroyed (second perfect active as middle); (a) of persons die, perish, lose one's life (MT 8.25); (b) of things be lost, be ruined (MT 9.17); (c) of transitory things pass away, cease to exist, perish (1P 1.7)
As to believe VS obey:
The word in question is "pisteo" and is: verb participle present active nominative masculine singular
Thayer's Greek lexicon gives good detail on the word meaning in this case:
"in a moral and religious reference, pisteon is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands a. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: cf. John 3:15 in g. below)). ... g. used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah -- the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ"
Half the translations make belief in Jesus a criteria for eternal life, while the other half make obedience the criteria for eternal life. That's problem No 1.
.
"anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life" NLT
" The one believing in the Son has eternal life" BLB
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life" KJV
All three translations that you listed have a criteria of believing in God's son for eternal life.
The translation I use states "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life..." as well.
The Greek word for a place of the spiritually dead is Hades. Luke 16 references Hades, and about a rich man who had physically died and was now "in agony" (v. 24). The man also asks Abraham to send Lazarus to his father's house to warn his five brothers so that they do not end up in "this place of torment" (v. 27-28).
Mark 9 also speaks of a place that sinner "goes to" (v. 43) or is "thrown into" (v.45, 47). It is a place where "their worm does not die.." (v. 44, 46, 48). Matthew 25 speaks of this place as "eternal punishment" (v. 46)
Annihilation diminishes the power of the cross. It endorses the idea the Christ triumphed over God Himself. It reduces the integrity of the Great Commission, negates justice, and has no solid doctrinal foundation.
The Greek word for a place of the spiritually dead is Hades. Luke 16 references Hades, and about a rich man who had physically died and was now "in agony" (v. 24). The man also asks Abraham to send Lazarus to his father's house to warn his five brothers so that they do not end up in "this place of torment" (v. 27-28).
This account was an illustration, it wasn't real. “The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any morereward, because all memory of them is forgotten. Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is noworknor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10.
Annihilation diminishes the power of the cross. It endorses the idea the Christ triumphed over God Himself. It reduces the integrity of the Great Commission, negates justice, and has no solid doctrinal foundation.
Nah it diminishes the power of some churches over their followers. If the threat isn't real then they lose their hold over their followers. Also following 'the cross' is idolatry.
80 years of wrong doing met with billions and billions of years of pain by fire isn't justice. It's an injustice. The law of Jehovah is eye for eye, tooth for tooth and life for a life. Eternal hellfire is not lawful as the punishment doesn't fit any crime according to the law that God Himself follows. Jehovah is no lawbreaker.
Indeed that is what the Bible says. As you pointed out it is good to use more than one translation of the Bible. Because sometimes the idea that the Bible writer was trying to get across doesn't cross over quite as well from Hebrew or Greek into English. Well done!
Further scriptural support of your assessment.
“faith follows the thing heard.” - Romans 10:17
"So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead." James 2:17
But it is INSPIRED by GOD, how on earth can there be errors?
So it is the writer scribe that directs what the message is!!
Half the translations make belief in Jesus a criteria for eternal life, while the other half make obedience the criteria for eternal life. That's problem No 1.
According to the literal interpretation of this verse those who don't receive salvation by whatever means suffer annihilation and God's wrath remains on their memory even after they are annihilated. ("the wrath of God abideth on him")
But the larger problem is that those who don't either believe in Jesus or obey him (depending on which translation you grow up with) do not inherit eternal spiritual life. That means they inherit eternal spiritual death according to how the Holy Spirit dictated the words to whoever wrote this contradicting passage. The passage then, specifically states that God will annihilate those who don't obey Jesus, or who don't believe in Jesus, take your pick.
Proof positive it's not universal redemption or eternal torment for unrepentant sinners but complete and total annihilation.
Death doesn't mean annihilation. It refers to separation. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death is separation from God. The Bible speaks of seven different categories of death, of which physical death and spiritual death are but two. In Ephesians 2:1 Paul refers to believers who at one time had been dead in their trespasses and sins. Even though in one sense, a spiritual sense, they had been dead, yet they were physically alive even though spiritually dead.
The fact that Revelation 19:20-20:10 states that the beast and the false prophet will still be alive and in torment in the lake of fire after having been there for a thousand years, and that it is said that they will be tormented forever, disproves the idea of annihilation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
