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Old 07-12-2016, 07:48 PM
 
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I used to read these types of passages as the man Jesus using his divine power to read the thoughts of men. But I read it differently now.

The character of Jesus was based upon the invisible diving being written about in pre-Christian literature by Philo of Judea, who apparently even used the same name, Jesus. This same invisible divine being was written about by Paul in his epistles, and by the author of the epistle to the Hebrews.

Also, the epistle of Clement, which I would trust to be more accurate and unaltered due to it's not being included in the canon, although for the life of me I can't see why they would have excluded such an amazing epistle.

Anyway, I see it in today's terms as the higher subconscious mind who goes deeper into our surface thoughts, into our conscience. The "dialogues" that Jesus has with the Pharisees in the gospel of John represent the inner dialogues which occur in our subconscious mind.

What do you think of this interpretation?
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
I used to read these types of passages as the man Jesus using his divine power to read the thoughts of men. But I read it differently now.

The character of Jesus was based upon the invisible diving being written about in pre-Christian literature by Philo of Judea, who apparently even used the same name, Jesus. This same invisible divine being was written about by Paul in his epistles, and by the author of the epistle to the Hebrews.
Philo used the same term John did: Logos, and both drew on a Greek line of thought started by Plato. Personally, I think Jesus would have preferred that the emphasis be on that basis of community known among followers of Jesus originally as "The Way" rather than the turn the faith took in emphasizing the personality.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:13 AM
 
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Jesus knew what they were thinking because the spirit of demon who where talking through these people who were trying to confuse him ....See the world is full of people who has demons who talk through people , and people say ``This is how I think ``
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Old 07-13-2016, 05:26 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Jesus knew what they were thinking because the spirit of demon who where talking through these people who were trying to confuse him ....See the world is full of people who has demons who talk through people , and people say ``This is how I think ``
Jesus was a medium--like Johnathon Edwards and could read others minds and thoughts and he could also predict the future...

Leviticus 20:6 ESV

“If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 19:31 ESV

“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.

Deuteronomy 18:10-13 ESV

There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God,
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:45 AM
 
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No. He was, via His Spirit, able to see into the hearts of men, past, present and future. The spiritual gift of Word of knowledge given to believers is a portion of this capability.

Word of knowledge is when you are shown something about an individual in prayer, that you could not possibly know (and this includes their thoughts) apart from G-d showing you, that is used to build up the person's faith to receive.

Word of wisdom follows this, as the person is given spiritual insights to help them overcome whatever the stumbling block is.

Next is prophecy, which is NOT telling someone what they are going to do on Tuesday, but at it's root is declaring the end from the beginning, ie. the word of a King, and it shall be done as the Spirit performs the Word.

These gifts are used of the Spirit in this ORDER, which is one way you know if a prophecy is from the Spirit of G-d. He had the Spirit given without measure, we receive a measure. Peace
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:35 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Everyone has their idea of what the passage means. here's mine.

I've seen this sorta thing before in the Tripitaka, where Buddha Knows what they are thinking and engages on a refutation to his stooge: "What do you think, O Ananda...?" In the Gospels,it is generally Peter who is the stooge.

The point is to construct a story that will refute a point held (or supposedly held) by the Opposition.

They mutter amongst themselves.. "This man is a blasphemer."..or "This man associates with pondlife". It is writing scenario to put an Argument into actually happening form, which makes it more readable, mare convincing and gives it authority by putting it into the mouth of the Master. Which is pretty much (I suggest) how all of Jesus sayings came to be written.

So the problem with the opposition muttering amongst themselves is that Jesus isn't invited to come and listen in So how does he know what they are saying?

Buddha (though Enlightenment) has preternatural hearing, so he can comprehend muttering at a considerable distance. With Jesus, it is a more vague "He knew" and whether that means a wisely accurate guess or some divine information passed on by his father which wert in heaven can be left to the reader to decide. As we see, they are rarely at a loss to come up with some rationalization of what is pretty evident story -construction for the purpose of making a polemic point.
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
I used to read these types of passages as the man Jesus using his divine power to read the thoughts of men. But I read it differently now.

The character of Jesus was based upon the invisible diving being written about in pre-Christian literature by Philo of Judea, who apparently even used the same name, Jesus. This same invisible divine being was written about by Paul in his epistles, and by the author of the epistle to the Hebrews.

Also, the epistle of Clement, which I would trust to be more accurate and unaltered due to it's not being included in the canon, although for the life of me I can't see why they would have excluded such an amazing epistle.

Anyway, I see it in today's terms as the higher subconscious mind who goes deeper into our surface thoughts, into our conscience. The "dialogues" that Jesus has with the Pharisees in the gospel of John represent the inner dialogues which occur in our subconscious mind.

What do you think of this interpretation?

I believe this is true but that Jesus was also born and lived and died.


He became a new Adam, and what this means is that the spirit of Adam is within all of us as trying to guide the whole body but it is a fallen spirit and so you have to get betrothed to a new husband.
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
What do you think of this interpretation?
It is an expression only. People say this all the time... "I know what you are thinking, but..." It doesn't refer to any special powers at all.

Jesus said, "12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do". Thus Jesus explains that everything He has done is no more than what is available to any man of faith who asks things of God.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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^
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,256 posts, read 10,535,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
. The "dialogues" that Jesus has with the Pharisees in the gospel of John represent the inner dialogues which occur in our subconscious mind.

What do you think of this interpretation?


Everything Jesus says is a parable and every parable can be read 3 different ways. An Atheist who knows nothing of the bible can read a parable and find a truth in it, but a well studied person who knows the history behind the bible will see something else.


An Atheist could give an easy sermon on the prodigal son, but a bible thumper will tell you that the prodigal son is in fact, the prodigal nation of Israel who were lost 2700 years ago. Just as the ten lost tribes left Judah, Christianity has left Judah in the exact same way and so you can also show Christianity to be the prodigal son because of the fact that Ephraim is the prodigal nation. That nation of Ephraim was sent into the nations where God said they would become Gentiles, but that after they became gentiles, God would betroth himself and redeem them back into Israel under the promise and name of Ephraim.


So when Jesus was telling the story of the prodigal, it is in fact showing the future of Christianity under the same promise and same name.


Then there is the third interpretation and true meaning of the prodigal that few know. Always 3 different views.




When Jesus was obviously speaking of the Jews in a parable and showing the present when he said the kingdom would be taken and give to another, he was also showing the future of what really will happen on Sukkot and it is not the Jews this parable is about any longer. When Jesus was speaking to those Pharisees, he was speaking of the present but the truth of the matter are always in the feasts.




EXAMPLE


This is obviously speaking of the teachers of the Torah Isn't it?

The Parable of the Wicked Tenants



33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.




But the thing that should be staring down the throat of every Christian is that it is now on them.


What Jesus said to these Pharisees can exactly be said about Christianity and what Christianity has done.


This parable is in fact about the wine harvest to come, Jesus came in the spring and he gave the rain of the spring and his next coming is inside people in the fall and he will rain down floods on people who receive the rain at the feast of Tabernacles, and this is the coming of the wine harvest. Sikels will swing and sway and people will drop dead.


From the very beginning anyone should know that there are 3 harvests of people.


The barley
The Wheat
The fruit and oil harvest.


While Jesus was obviously talking to those Pharisees and scribes, what changed?


The kingdom of heaven was taken out of their hands and now put in the hands of Gentiles and all Gentiles have done was to repeat what the first kingdom of Israel had done.






NOW IT WAS THEY WHO HAD BEEN PUT IN CHARGE.


The roles are exactly reversed and they will give account just as those scribes and Pharisees did, and it is more than Ironic because it looks like such a big dig against Jews, But OH MY GOD, It is twice a bigger dig against Christianity because the Lord will come in the harvesting of the grapes in the fall, and now Christians will have to stand and give account.


The parable is showing the last harvest, the fruit harvest when God comes judging the people he put in charge and this is the bema judgment, this isn't where the unbeliever Jew dies, it is where the gentiles fall dead. It is talking about the crushing of the grapes against those put in charge and that IS NOT THE JEW.


It is the Gentile and this is the wine harvest.


The two will be there and only one of them follows the commandments of God.




If somebody thinks that they haven't killed the heir, they should look again.


Then there is a third interpretation of that parable.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 07-13-2016 at 07:28 PM..
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